#1

Open thinking…

Consider taking Pantethine with rapamycin.

Review the following;

Plus three other papers

PDF copy at

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://altmedrev.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/v2-5-365.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjDpdaxqIz9AhV3EVkFHdWHCIwQFnoECA0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1JePRTyuK-WShLhm2HSnsp

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#2

Pantethine is a not rate limited coa precursor. I take some when drinking alcohol. Tonight i have taken 2g to go with 1 nice bottle of tawny port. It, however, is not something i would take every day because it holds back clotting.

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#3

Clotting: so, combining aspirin, fish oil, pantethine and other blood thinners is a risk?

#4

It may be. I am not personally a fan of aspirin.

#5

But inflammation
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jch.14516

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#6

This was the paper referred to that talked about pantethine and inflammation
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jphs/123/1/123_13R01CP/_pdf/-char/en

This says: "However, the precise details of their individual
and collective roles in inflammation are unknown. "

When referring to Cysteamine.

I suppose I tend to rely on my CRP values which were below the measurable level in recent tests.

#7

Thanks for this! I think I’ll stop using pantethine and slightly increase the dose of rosuvastatin back to what it was before. I also use Ezetimibe.

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#8

I would not agree that the paper referred to justifies not using pantethine. However, I take it normally when drinking to accelerate the metabolism of acetyldehyde. Hence my pantethine consumption correlates with that of ethanol. I have not tried to correlate pantethine with LDL-C or ApoB. But last weeks LP(a) was unmeasurably low <5.2 nmol/l ApoB was 84mg/dL and LDL-C was 2.87 mmo/L. Hence it is quite possible that pantethine is behind at least part of that. At the same time my CRP is unmeasurably low at <0.3 mg/l so I don’t think pantethine is causing any inflammation or otherwise what I am doing gets rid of it.

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#9

That is interesting because I have a high Lp(a). I have used pantethine to lower LDL, but I have always been concerned about the lack of quality studies. It may be safer to up the rosuvastatin slightly with ezetimibe. The text also mentioned that B5 is associated with insulin resistance, the original reason why I reduced rosuvastatin and added pantethine…

You have such special longevity stack that I wouldn’t draw any conclusions from your blood tests.

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#10

Because there are so many things I do that are unusual it is hard for others to draw conclusions. I do, however, track what I do in detail with a timed diary and a spreadsheet of interventions which I can compare to my weekly blood tests and other data. Hence I can draw some conclusions.

B5 and Pantethine are both Coenzyme-A precursors. B5 goes through Pantethine to get there.

#11

OK, time to beat this to death! :sweat_smile:

First Pantethine (Coenzyme A Precursor) is a derivative of vitamin B5.
I don’t know what you think are good studies, but a couple I find compelling, are below:
Does a randomized, double-blind, multicenter study meet your criteria?
Or, a triple-blinded placebo and diet-controlled investigation.

My personal experience is that Pantethine negated rapamycin’s effects on my lipids.
Pantethine alone reduces TGs by ~ 17% adding CoA reduces to ~26%
I am a big fan of Pantethine because it works for me and I feel zero side effects.
“Moreover, unlike statins, which deplete CoQ10 to detrimental levels, both the pantethine and placebo groups significantly increased their CoQ10 levels above baseline.”

“Pantethine is known to be safe and effective33 and has been used as a medicine in Japan for over 40 years. In the US, oral pantethine (Pantesin®; Daiichi Fine Chemical Co, Ltd, Toyama, Japan) has been available as a nutritional supplement since 1992. In a recent randomized clinical study in a North American population of participants at conventional low to moderate CVD risk, pantethine produced significant and sustained reductions in LDL-C, TC, and Apo-B.34 Based on previous studies”

"To evaluate the lipid-lowering effects and safety of a natural hypolipidemic compound, coenzyme A (CoA) capsule, in Chinese patients with moderate dyslipidemia, compared with pantethine.

Overall, 216 subjects (124 males and 92 females; age, 18-75 years) with moderate dyslipidemia (triglyceride [TG], 2.3-6.5 mmol/L) were randomly divided into 2 groups administered CoA 400 U/d (n = 111) or pantethine 600 U/d (n = 105). Blood lipoproteins, liver and renal function, blood glucose, and complete blood count were measured at baseline and after 4- and 8-week treatment.

TG reduction was 26.0% with CoA and 17.4% with pantethine after 4 weeks and 33.3% and 16.5% after 8 weeks; compared with baseline, the reduction was significant (P < .01) in both groups. The difference between the 2 groups was significant at both 4 weeks (P = .0413) and 8 weeks (P < .001). Compared with baseline, total cholesterol and non-high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (non-HDL-C) were reduced, whereas HDL-C was increased with CoA after 8 weeks"

Full paper here: “Sci-Hub | Efficacy and tolerability of coenzyme A vs pantethine for the treatment of patients with hyperlipidemia: A randomized, double-blind, multicenter study. Journal of Clinical Lipidology, 9(5), 692–697 | 10.1016/j.jacl.2015.07.003”

Pantethine has a possible use in preserving brain function:
“As a natural dietary low-molecular-weight thiol, pantethine helps maintain brain homeostasis and function in Alzheimer’s disease (AD) mice”
“This study highlights the potential therapeutic effect of pantethine in AD by reducing cholesterol and lipid raft formation and regulating intestinal flora, suggesting a new option for the development of clinical drugs for AD.”

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#12

I am aware of Pantethine’s LDL-cholesterol-lowering effect. I don’t doubt that.

“I don’t know what you think are good studies”

By high-quality studies (in this context, when as alternatives e.g. statins, etc.), I mean studies that demonstrate a reduction in events or/and effect on ACM. That’s why I said it may be safer to up rosuvasatin dosage (very low at the moment).

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#13

Don’t think so. I would raise your dose of Pantethine to 600 mg/day or add Bempedoic acid or perhaps Ezetimibe.
I take atorvastatin, which I feel is the safest statin, 500/mg daily, but I certainly never plan on increasing the dose. I only continue to take atorvastatin because of its plausible effect on dementia and I don’t suffer any side effects from taking it.
My daughter takes rosuvastatin.

"Lowering LDL cholesterol levels — “bad” cholesterol — is an important therapeutic goal in the treatment of coronary heart disease, and rosuvastatin may thus be the statin of choice for many.

For people considered at risk of diabetes, though, atorvastatin may provide the safer option"
Cholesterol: Comparing the risks, safety of rosuvastatin, atorvastatin.

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#14

I am already on ezetimibe. I only take Rosuvastatin 2.5mg EOD. I was thinking of taking 2.5mg every day. Unfortunately, Bempedoic acid is not available where I live in Scandinavia.

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#15

Is CoA available anywhere? The data looked promising and the science seems cleaner than pantethine, but I haven’t been able to find it.

#16

Yes from scientific suppliers

This is sold as a precusor,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Coenzyme-Technologies-1000-Pack-Capsules/dp/B00014DIMW

but although I have put it on a test list I think I will stick with. the B5 vitaminers (inc pantehine). The thing on Amazon includes Pantethine.

#17

I used Pantethine to lower my lipids after I saw that rapamycin raised them.

  1. Increases HDL (Good) Cholesterol
    Studies have reported an increase in HDL cholesterol levels by up to 17% with pantethine supplementation.

  2. Lowers LDL (Bad) Cholesterol
    Pantethine has been found to lower LDL cholesterol levels by anywhere between 4% and 20%.

  3. Reduces Triglyceride Levels
    Pantethine supplementation has been associated with a reduction in triglyceride levels by at least 14%.

I got a significant reduction in all of my bad lipids without experiencing any side effects.
Is Pantethine available in Scandinavia?

I lived in Germany for 7 years before it joined the EU and common supplements
available in the US were not available over the counter. Is this still the case in the EU?

#18

“the science seems cleaner”

What do you mean by cleaner? It is a vitamin B5 derivative

“Pantethine is a derivative of vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid). It is formed by the condensation of two molecules of pantothenic acid, which is a precursor for the synthesis of coenzyme A (CoA) in the body.”

“Pantethine does not appear to affect the production of Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10), unlike statins, which can deplete CoQ10 levels.”

#19

Following on from this the body creates Panetehine as a step towards creating Coenxyme A from B5.

The reason why taking it has an effect is that there is a rate limit in effect creating Pantethine from Pantethenoic acid (that is I think 2 steps and one is rate limited, but I would need to look that up).

Hence you have to live with the fact that your body is creating and using Pantethine.

#20

Yes it is available (iherb), I have used 600 mg per day. But I think I’ll leave it out for a while. I have to study this topic more at a better time.