Meds that decrease mortality

[KarlT]

A good video by Matt K. I like that he states he data is a preprint, that it is an association study and that it shows correlation, not necessarily causation.
Very thorough. Lots of explanations about scientific process, and each medication.

These 14 Medications are linked to lower death rates in humans | 23 - Longevity this Week #4

[LaraPo]

A little bit long. I would prefer a short summary of it, something like, the following 14 drugs reduce risk of mortality:
#14 Atorvastatin
#13 Naproxen
#12 Otomize
#11 Viagara
#10 Sumatriptan
#9 Estradiol
#8 Estriol
#7 Vagifem
#6 Avaxim (hep A vax)
#5 Lymecyline
#4 Estraderm
#3 Ovestin
#3 Revavax
#1 Marvelon (oral contraceptive)

No Rapa, no Metformin, no Testosterone.

[desertshores]

Maybe an additional indicator that the DAV protocol might have some anti-aging benefits.

“Lymecycline and doxycycline, while distinct in certain aspects, share notable similarities. Both belong to the tetracycline class of antibiotics and are commonly used in acne treatment, helping to reduce inflammation and acne lesions due to their antibacterial properties.”

https://click2pharmacy.co.uk/lymecycline-vs-doxycycline/#:~:text=Lymecycline%20and%20doxycycline%2C%20while%20distinct,due%20to%20their%20antibacterial%20properties.

[desertshores]

My reading of many papers on the hazards/benefits of estradiol supplementation leaves me confused.

“17-β estradiol is the primary form of estradiol that is measured in most prescribed estradiol blood tests.” “Estradiol is a form of the hormone estrogen. It’s also called 17 beta-estradiol.”

“Medical guidelines generally recommend estradiol levels between 10-40 pg/mL for healthy men”

"Levels below 10 pg/mL are associated with sexual dysfunction, bone loss, and cardiovascular issues.

Levels above 40 pg/mL increase the risk of cardiovascular disease, prostate issues, gynecomastia, and infertility.

Evidence is lacking regarding the effects of specific estradiol levels on human health span or lifespan."

Another U-shaped curve?

[Virilius]

Men with low estrogen usually also have low testosterone while men with high estrogen tend to be obese.

[KarlT]

I disagree. Most of the value of his video is his explanation of statistics, and of the possible reasons why some of the meds might be causative rather than simple correlation.

[AnUser]

@LaraPo

A little bit long. I would prefer a short summary of it, something like, the following 14 drugs reduce risk of mortality:

@KarlT

Most of the value of his video is his explanation of statistics, and of the possible reasons why some of the meds might be causative rather than simple correlation.

You can do both. The reason why many YouTubers try and ‘lengthen’ YouTube videos is that it allows them to run more advertisements in it. I saw people complain another video by Kaeberlein that he didn’t say which supplements he was taking fast.

Generally it is probably a good idea to say the most important information first, that way if someone only watches only for a minute, they will have gotten something from the video. If they liked what you said, they might become interested to watch more of it.

In this case, people are clicking on the link for the 14 medications - just talk about that first and then go into the details. The most important is to be informative and give a great experience for people who watch your videos. I think the algorithm will reward someone for that as well. You should aim for the entire video to be that, but don’t keep information from viewers to try and increase watch time IMO, it will just annoy them. I don’t know much about making videos but this is some general principles which will probably apply.

[KarlT]

@AnUser all good points. I guess I didn’t care that much about the specific drugs since I knew it was a retrospective, preprint association study.

[LaraPo]

I agree. Unfortunately, I didn’t have enough time for a long video. I was able to watch this one from the beginning to the end only because I was multitasking: dyeing hair, stimulating my vagus nerve, cooking, watching the video, taking notes and answering phone

[DrFraser]

This is a fair comment as the metabolic pathway to form estrogen in women and men is through testosterone. Women have more testosterone than estrogen on a mg amount - it is just relatively 10 fold or so lower than men.
When we supplement men with testosterone, because estradiol increases due to more testosterone converting to estradiol, this does need monitoring and in some patients who convert too much, we need to place them on an aromatase inhibitor to not go too high on the estradiol.
Pretty much all hormones have a happy spot, including daily variation for many. For example, Testosterone is highest in the morning, and it is on the basis of these levels that we’d indicate someone is low. Measure it later in the day, and it may be “low” but this isn’t the time to measure it.
So yes -low or high is bad - I typically like is in the mid 20’s to 30.

[Neo]

@LaraPo

would prefer a short summary of it, something like, the following 14 drugs reduce risk of mortality

For me the discussion on the class of SGLT2-i (at the end since only enough data when look at as a class) and the class of phosphodiesterase-5 inhibitor (PDE5-I) medications (not just viagra) and the pattern of the group of estrogen medicines and in general how he cross references other data from casual mice studies like ITP and other human data was most interesting.

[anon16510610]

He should be doing blog posts, not videos.

[Oldcat]

Matt,
I’ve heard you on Peter Attia’s podcast numerous times. Always appreciate you well grounded analysis that in my view, emphasizes rational, conservative approach to data interpretation. And you are a good conversation besides. I take 5mg cialis mostly for the increase in blood flow in the area of a muscle in the penis that inhibits the return of blood once it’s tumescent. Apparently this is a function that can degrade quickly as one ages - I’m 75. Canagaliflozin sounds very interesting to me as I have to restrict carbs. I yearn for a slice of pizza someday before I die. I’m sorry Rapamycin wasn’t included in this study-there just aren’t of us converts…yet.
I believe you mentioned acarbose but didn’t reference it in your talk. I bet it’s in the study and that it just didn’t reach significance even though it stands out in conjunction with Rapa in the ITP as one of the most powerful longevity drugs. What say you?

[Neo]

@Oldcat

I believe you mentioned acarbose but didn’t reference it in your talk. I bet it’s in the study and that it just didn’t reach significance even though it stands out in conjunction with Rapa in the ITP as one of the most powerful longevity drugs.

Not sure that Acarbose is common enough in the UK (tend to be mostly is Asian societies where populations don’t eat a lot of wheat and hence have less “side effects”). @adssx migh know if Acarbose was there but did not reach significance, it is a good question.

[adssx]

We discussed the paper here: First report from Epiterna on the search for drugs that can extend human lifespan

Acarbose wasn’t analyzed (you can check the supplemental material of the paper to see the whole dataset); it’s indeed extremely rare in the UK. In FY 2020, it was prescribed 26,742 times by the NHS in England (source). If I understand correct, this is not the number of patients but the number of boxes, so you can divide by 12 and you get… 2k people in England being on acarbose! To compare, metformin was prescribed 22,902,368 times and England has 56 million inhabitants.

[Dr.Bart]

More meaningless correlations… let me take a quick stab at it…

#14 Atorvastatin - lower LDL - good
#13 Naproxen - used for sports related injuries - EXERCISE reduces mortality
#12 Otomize - used for SWIMMER’s ear… need I go on ?
#11 Viagara - Sex is very healthy, regular sex probably reduces mortality via various mechanisms
#10 Sumatriptan - WTF ?
#9 Estradiol - HRT
#8 Estriol - HRT
#7 Vagifem - MORE SEX
#6 Avaxim (hep A vax) - hepatitis is bad
#5 Lymecyline - lowers periodontal disease
#4 Estraderm - HRT
#3 Ovestin - HRT
#3 Revavax -REPAVAX - DTaP with IPV… wow who knew, vaccines actually reduce mortality - SHOCKING ! /s
#1 Marvelon (oral contraceptive) pregnancy is risky and aging

[LaraPo]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I’m not on any of those meds.

[Dr.Bart]

because you don’t have those problems…
you must had DTaP and IPV vaccinations though

[adssx]

@Dr.Bart

Atorvastatin - lower LDL - good

Other statins were associated with lower lifespan in the paper: First report from Epiterna on the search for drugs that can extend human lifespan

The paper has some mistakes but it’s interesting and worth a read.

[EenDwaze]

I was thinking the same thing about the DAV therapy. It also made theorize that maybe we have a lot more chronic infections than we realize.

Then it made me question my tenuous grasp of the microbiome. Are the antibiotics just effecting the gut or do they serve additional functions?