#76

A bit more pumps/fullness in my muscles, slightly improved endurance/cardio, and seem to be able to eat a little more without gaining fat.

I should disclose that Im already a fitness junkie and in really good shape. Also I am 38 and I am on TRT (140mg testosterone per week)

I probably would notice more dramatic benefits if I were older or overweight and sedentary, but I still can tell a difference in how I look compared to before.

2 Likes
#77

Thanks, now can I buy some, and what would price be?

#78

Luke, all the research I’ve read (and there is a lot of it) is that higher Growth Hormone/IGF-1 levels translate into shorter lives. In fact a lot of effort and money (tens of millions of $ just into Loyal), is going into new drugs to lower IGF-1/GH as longevity drugs. Here are some threads and links on this: IGF-1 inhibitors and lifespan extension?

and Here: Another (likely) Longevity Drug - Somavert / Pegvisomant

GH supplementation was big in the world of “anti-aging medicine” and the A4M about 15 to 20 years ago… when people are much older and in worse shape than you (say in their 60s and 70s) it is reputed that GH can make people feel better, stronger, etc.

But as more and more research came out around IGF-1 over the decades, it fell out of favor and became known as clearly pro-aging in the long term.

But there are likely short term benefits - especially after injury, etc.

Unless you’ve seen some research I’ve missed, I suspect the ideal dosing is going to be something that is pulsatile… periodically done when you need some benefits from the increase.

More info on Loyal for Dogs and their first drug which is an IGF-1 Inhibitor:

In large- and giant-breed dogs, breeding for size caused these dogs to have highly elevated levels of IGF-1, a hormone that drives cell growth. High IGF-1 effectively drives these dogs to grow large when they’re young, but high IGF-1 levels in adult dogs are believed to accelerate their aging and reduce their healthy lifespan.

LOY-001 extends lifespan in part by reducing IGF-1 to levels seen in smaller-breed dogs. The IGF-1 axis is one of the most well-studied longevity pathways. In model organisms from C. elegans to mice, reducing IGF-1 extends healthy lifespan, and increasing IGF-1 shortens healthy lifespan. In humans, certain centenarians have been shown to have genetically lower levels of IGF-1.

The breakthrough moment for Loyal was connecting the biological mechanism of big dogs’ size to their short lifespan, and recognizing the big-dog-short-lifespan phenotype may not be inherent, but instead a type of “accelerated aging disorder”.

We designed LOY–001 as a long-acting injectable administered by your veterinarian every three to six months. In parallel, through our recently-announced partnership with Crinetics, we’re also developing LOY-003, a daily pill to address this same IGF-1 over-expression.

Here: The Search for a Pill That Can Help Dogs—and Humans—Live Longer (Wired Magazine)

Here: One Step Closer To Helping Your Dogs Live Longer (Forbes)

Here: Video Interview: Celine Halioua, Founder of Loyal, a biotech startup developing drugs to extend dog lifespan

7 Likes
Growth Hormone and longevity
#79

@LukeMV no need to provide any buying info for HGH. Thanks @RapAdmin for the info. Yeah, since I don’t care much to gain muscle and the fact that it is not going to help with longevity, I’ll just pass on it.

1 Like
#80

I wonder if there is a benefit of cycling HGH and Rapamycin, but I fear that there is not much to find in the literature. So we will have to guess again:

  1. Do large grown animals live longer on Rapa? Yes!

  2. Do large grown animals on Rapa live as long as small grown animals not on Rapa? Idk.

  3. Do small grown animals live longer on Rapa? Yes!

  4. Do large grown animals and small grown animals both on Rapa share an equal lifespan? So do large animals profit more? Idk.

  5. Does the lifespan of a small animal on HGH equal the lifespan of a large animal?

  6. Does Rapamycin cause the thymus to shrink? I think, I’ve read something like that. Have to check again.

2 Likes
#81

I think this is a good debate but just like with most things, I think there is a middle ground

GH/IGF-1 deficiency contributes to physiological age-related cardiovascular modifications, such as decrease in the number of cardiomyocytes [41-43], rarefaction of coronary arterioles [44], increase in fibrosis and collagen deposition [45-48], reduced protein synthesis [49] and alteration of contractile proteins with reduction in myosin-actin bridges [50].

Low IGF-1 is considered by most to be between 84–100 µ/l and numerous studies recommend that raising IGF-1 to high normal range reverses Chronic Medical Diseases (CMD), improves bone mineral density (BMD), and fibromyalgia
Low and Normal IGF-1 Levels in Patients with Chronic Medical Disorders (CMD) is Independent of Anterior Pituitary Hormone Deficiencies: Implications for Treating IGF-1 Abnormal Deficiencies with CMD - PMC.

Low serum IGF1 is associated with hypertension and predicts early cardiovascular events in women with rheumatoid arthritis

There are more studies like this too. So while I agree I wouldn’t want high IGF1, I wouldn’t want low either.

1 Like
Bryan Johnson stops rapamycin
#82

Yes, there are scenarios where low GH is likely bad. But, I suspect that overall the risk of lower GH/IGF1 is much less of an issue in terms of longevity…

In Laron Syndrome the people have a defect in their Growth Hormone receptor (so their body does not recognize / use growth hormone), so effectively extremely low GH , and they live full lives and are immune to cancer and diabetes… so it seems that on balance (after age 25) it is likely better to risk low GH than high GH levels.

And while most of us don’t want to be 4 feet tall (as Laron Dwarfs are), what were talking about here is really GH/IGF1 levels after puberty and full growth is completed.

and as I mentioned in this post:

But - the Laron Syndrome people seem to show that even extremely low levels of IGF1/growth hormone (which you would see with a low protein diet) don’t translate directly to extreme frailty. These people don’t seem extremely frail, though also don’t seem to be extremely strong / fit. But living in rural, mountainous Ecuador they do seem to get quite a bit of exercise.

But - in addition to not getting cancer or diabetes, they also don’t get Alzheimers. So, perhaps there is a bit of a trade-off here that needs to be recognized. And perhaps the risk of frailty from lower IGF-1/ protein is not as significant as some like to think?

Valter Longo suggests (in video below) that you get about 50% of the longevity benefits of lower IGF-1 when started later in life, compared to childhood, like in the Laron people.

Perhaps the best balance is pulsed IGF-1; mostly low, but occasionally high for recovery/healing/muscle growth?

Post: A Life-Extension Drug for Big Dogs Is Getting Closer to Reality (Wired) - #8 by RapAdmin

5 Likes
#83

If FDA has approved an IGF-1 reducing drug in dogs to improve lifespan, it’s over for the IGF-1 boosters as far as I can tell. Some protein foods increase IGF-1 as well.

1 Like
#84

The FDA hasn’t approved the Loyal drug yet. They have approved the protocol for testing the drug. The testing needs to be completed… I think Celine said they expect they expect that to happen in the next 12 to 24 months.

4 Likes
#85

Examples of protein/foods that increase/decrease IGF1? As far as GH I’ll stick to high intensity exercise (short periods ) to increase it.

#86

Protein powder for example. I don’t remember the others.

#87

I just heard a podcast interview with him (Fahy, pronounced “Fay silent H”) from last year and besides his TRIM protocol he mentioned he takes Centrophenoxine and carnosine (specifically to prevent muscle aging). He stated that he doesn’t see any muscle aging in his muscles because of the carnosine, although didn’t specify the amount he takes. He does take it before exercise. I may put this in with the carnosine conversation.

5 Likes
#88

Most recent interview with Dr. Fahy. Talking about the TRIM X trials. Pretty amazing results for vo2max and muscle.

5 Likes
#89

he looks great for being over 70. That says a lot. The dude is 74.

1 Like
#90

I’m very fascinated by the promise of Fahy’s treatment and listened to him speak on podcasts and presentations probably five times, but terrified of being incorrect and burning out my thyroid. Also, the price of participating in TRIMX2 seems steep. And no-one serious (beyond Horvath) seems to be seriously discussing his work — I know scientists can be clannish and act like “mean girls”, but clear results should rise to the top of discussion: am I missing something (negative) with TRIMX?

3 Likes
#91

Have you listened to this presentation? The bioclocks may have issues Greg Fahy: We may have discussed what this guy is doing but can we talk more about him - #57 by RapAdmin

2 Likes
#92

No, I haven’t listened, but I will later. The only thing about Fahy is that somehow, he looks same or better than he looked 5-7 years ago. May be other things at play (other than TRIIMX) but I tend to like it when people in anti-ageing field look the part.

2 Likes
#93

For those of us who don’t feel like listening to this presentation (I worked in a university biochem/oncology/polymerase lab and I personally find it boring even though it is useful info and I have a background): at roughly 30 min in Eric Verdin says the TRIM protocol proliferates naive T cells and these have a “younger age” so these are what likely cause the effect of measuring younger age, and not actual decreasing cellular age in general from TRIM. He says he can measure this difference in his lab test protocol and has reached out to the TRIM authors to get the trial DNA to do this measurement but they haven’t responded. Let’s hope this lack of response is unintentional.

Greg Fahy or Steve Horvath: if you are on this forum, please allow Eric Verdin to run these tests — there are loads of us who may be interested in your protocol but if you appear to be selectively allowing tests this looks bad. Thank you.

3 Likes
#94

I’d argue it’s good for thyroid health. Yes, it could lower T4 levels but it improves conversion from T4 to T3.

#95

Is Greg Fahy taking E5?

Here he is 4 years ago.

Here he is now, 74 years old but looking 30:

He does work with Harold Katcher and in the Modern Healthspan interview above mentions that a new element is being tried in TRIM. He is participating in the lastest TRIM trial. He has taken note of his apparent age regression and says he doesn’t know if the new addition is responsible for it.

Will a young Harold Katcher appear soon?

1 Like