I imagine the complexity is in the controller, that is the software that determines the shape & strength of the field.
Software, especially for a small market, can be pretty expensive. 
medaura
#62
I think your couple of sentences are worth more than my few paragraphs. I too have done.
By the way itās interesting as when I lower the intensity I can feel it in my intestine when used over my abdomen, like an indescribable ghostly feeling. But when I crank up the intensity I donāt even feel that because the overwhelming feeling is that of the muscles contracting involuntarily. It does double duty as EMS.
Tim
#63
Iād love to have one but the cost is out of my range.
kansel
#64
Iām still with @desertshores on this, sorry! 
Without RCTs evolving a significant number of subjects the jury is still out.
āSince the average placebo response in the placebo-controlled trials was 35 percent, they calculate a total of 50 percent placebo response in comparator trials (table 1).ā
And they can be as high as 60%
I am not knocking the placebo effect. Sometimes the mind is more powerful than the medicine.
One of the dumbest double blinded trials ever published.
Am I reading this correctly? Eight men with six dropouts?
The list of bias and conflicts by the authors is just too long to list: (A partial list)
"and a co-inventor of specific pulsed low frequency magnetic field therapy (neuromodulation, U.S. Patent # 6,234,953 and patents pending.) Dr Thomas holds a noncontrolling interest in Fralex Therapeutics Inc. (a spin-off company of UWO and LHRI), which owns the technology. Dr Thomas also serves as the V-P Research for Fralex Therapeutics Inc. Dr Thomas was Ms Grahamās supervisor for this project. Frank S Prato PhD: Dr Prato is the Chair of Imaging Sciences and Director of Imaging for Lawson Health Research Institute (LHRI) and St Josephās Hospital (London Ontario Canada), professor with the Departments of Medical Biophysics and Diagnostic Imaging and Nuclear Medicine, Schulich School of Medicine and Dentistry, University of Western Ontario (UWO) and a co-inventor of specific pulsed low-frequency magnetic field therapy (neuromodulation, U.S. Patent # 6,234,953 and patents pending.) Dr Prato holds a noncontrolling interest in Fralex Therapeutics Inc (a spinoff company of UWO and LHRI), which owns the technology. Dr Prato also serves as the Chair of the Scientific Advisory Committee for Fralex Therapeutics Inc. Karissa Graham (summer student, University of Western Ontario): Ms Graham was the blinded experimenter for this
āOur hope is that PEMF may offer a very safe, yet effective alternative for at least some these patients.ā
Yeah, well at least 30% will experience improvement even if you forget to turn the power on.
"A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial using a low-frequency magnetic field in the treatment of musculoskeletal chronic pain - PMC
The placebo response in clinical trials: more questions than answers - PMC.
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IMO: If the components are not off the shelf they could be. No need for any custom electronic components for such a trivial device. āelectronic components inside for the UI unit that lets me modulate intensity of field as well as choose the frequencies and set timers.ā Yes, ask any electronics engineer including me and they will say it is a trivial feat. There is no need even to develop any new circuitry. This technology has been off the shelf for many decades. I am sure they just copied and adapted somebody elseās designs.
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There is no complexity in the software or the electronics.
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medaura
#68
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Believe what you want. If itās helping you great.
Unlike you, I have no horse in the race.
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kansel
#70
If it were for steep price, Iād love to try it. I like to try anything. Maybe in the future.
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āElite Athletes Swear by These Extreme Treatments.ā
Being an āElite Athleteā doesnāt mean you lack gullibility, but it probably does mean you have more disposable income to waste on āExtreme Treatments.ā
I think most of these athletes are staying āEliteā in spite of ā not because of ā the āExtreme Treatmentsā.
Neo
#72
Could be. One signal that there may be something here is that the worldās in many ways best medical research institution at Harvard is seriously looking into these things
From the WSJ article/
ā In June, Mass General Brigham healthcare system opened a 20,000-square-foot laboratory and training facility in Foxborough, Mass., devoted to sports-performance research. ā
āMedical experts are looking to training strategies of high-performance athletes to source ideas to improve healthspan,ā says Dr. Sawalla Guseh, a sports cardiologist at Mass General Brigham in Boston, referring to the number of years someone is healthy, without chronic and debilitating disease.ā
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eli
#73
no expert but fwiw when i asked the physiotherapist (based in Madrid) that recently bought my shock wave Storz Medical equipment I wasnāt using any longer, about his honest opinion on ems sculpt and tense 8e.g. powerdot) , he said that he used this kind of apparatus that you have, and told me for him this was the best and most powerful treatment he offered (he did not really pronounce himself on emsculpt (since he didnāt use it) and on tens he only said that emsculpt was more powerful so to buy that instead of tens if affordable
Sorry, I think we got off track here. I would be interested in PEMF if there were some studies backing it. Is there just the one study with the eight men six dropouts? Or are the rest just from the inventor/manufacturer? ā personally I underweight studies from teams with a vested financial interest (the more difficult ones are the ones who donāt disclose it). And if thatās the only research, Iāll pass for now.
I seriously doubt they produce 4T for a millisecond regardless what was stated: thatās some serious firepower. I saw somewhere on this forum 4mTesla ā was that a typo? Because that seems more correct to me.
If you are just trying to create an electric field you donāt need a magnetic force: simple plates is all youād need. Shape them for directional control. This is literally not rocket science.
Electronic devices are cheap and simple to make. If this simple device actually produces results, thereās little need to pay $2,000. I can wind my own coils while watching TVā¦.
The elite athletes I read about seem to prefer stem cell treatments, and cold therapy after games. I donāt need to rebound as quickly as they do, and I want the stress to grow resistance muscles so the cold therapy they use is out for me. Iād be very curious to try stem cells.
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To some extent I went by a recommendation from the intermediary who sold a range of these sorts of devices and recommended the one I bought. I started using it again yesterday and I do think it achieves something in terms of improving mitochondrial quality (much like Rapamycin and autophagy).
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Stem cell treatments are still in the āfiguring it outā stage as far as I know. I believe the primary effect currently is a reduction in inflammation. However, the people here are experimenters by definition, so hopefully something works out even though the research is thin or non-existent.
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tananth
#77
Assuming this works by making the targeted tissue appear injured, triggering the bodyās repair mechanism, it is likely to recruit stem cells from the rest of the body for repair. This comes with a low risk of migrating cancer cells to the target site (from a pre-existing cancer tumor, effectively triggering metastasis of the cancer)
On the other hand if the only alternative is surgery, which probably comes with an even higher risk of migrating cancer cells during the healing of the surgical wound, it would definitely be worth the risk.
I would be cautious about using this for every little ache and pain though, let alone using a full body version on a regular basis just for anti-aging. There is a reason mammals long ago evolved away the ability to regrow limbs.
Another treatment to trigger accelerated healing and tissue regeneration that has been discussed on this site is injection of peptides like BP-157 : It too works but mice studies have shown that it increases the risk of cancer. Unlike PEMF it is hard to target just one body site with BP-157 injections, so the cancer risk of targeted PEMF may be much lower than BP-157 injections (that are still widely used by athletes to heal injuries, in spite of the known cancer risk).
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tananth
#78
The 4T rating is misleading and irrelevant since a static magnetic field of 4T has no effect on biological tissue. What matters is the energy transfer which depends on the rate of change of the magnetic field (and its frequency) : The specs medaura linked list 92 T/sec as the maximum rate of change, though at what frequency is not specified. It also says the field strength at 4cm from the coils is 10% of the rated strength (0.4 T) and since even the center of the coil ring is at least this distance from the actual coils, that is probably the highest intensity tissue will encounter.
Note that there are FDA approved PEMF devices for bone fracture healing and my wife just got one device prescribed after spinal surgery : The insurance paid $5000 for the device which was used 1 hour/day for 1 month : the device deactivated automatically after 12 months to prevent its reuse! The FDA approved device used a rechargeable battery so its power usage had to be less than 10 Watts. Most of the less expensive PEMF devices seem to use around 1-10W of power and many operate on a 9V battery! Medauraās device uses 1000 Watts to operate and is water cooled, so is at least 2 orders of magnitude more powerful than the FDA approved device my wife used. My wife just had one knee replacement and the other knee is predicted to require a replacement in 1-2 years : I am tempted to try Medauraās recommended device (Physio Magneto PM-ST-4) to see if it could heal my wifeās 2nd knee and avoid surgery.
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medaura
#79
I tried upthread to make the point re: padding around the coil being around 4 cm thick and the implications for the attenuation of the field but it was somehow lost in the noise. After doing my research on FDA approved devices the $2K machine with those specs seemed like a great value. If you are seriously considering it though shoot me a DM: Iām seeing ways of getting an even better price but the details fluctuate so no point in posting here. When Iām on my phone while the device is working thereās strange twitches appearing on its screen. Must be the electromagnetic interference from the device, and I use it on my pelvis, so the phone isnāt even close. The air around the coil is electrified, can feel it when I put my hand above it. The thing is no joke, which is why Iāve been reluctant to even stick my wrist through the coil. Not sure I want to experience the full 4T at the cross section. The studies Iāve seen show good results at much lower field strengths.
Did that FDA approved device help your wife? Iām shocked about the planned one-year lifespan to prevent further useā¦.
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cl-user
#80
I did a quick look at the PEMF patents to check if we were missing somme sophisticated stuff but indeed the base electronics is just an oscillator and some transistors.
Here is a schematics of a 2011 patent. They do use an LM555 and a BC558C which are components from the 70ās. Clearly surprising for a 2011 patent!
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