i am practically 100% certain they do not have pure lidocaine powder and even if they did it is almost certain they would not sell it to you. From my supplier in china it is quite expensive from them at $135/5grams or $27/g which is the problem. But that supplier’s price seems way too high to me so i am also going to look more. problem with most chinese suppliers is they only want to deal in very large quantities and dollar amounts and also the problem of getting fake goods from some and think it is impossible to find one to take credit card. That is another reason why i tried to boil or evaporate off most of the water in regular 2% lidocaine that i have and can buy 50ml 2% lidocaine in philippines for a little less than a dollar which obviously comes to a dollar per gram of lidocaine vs $27 for the powder. Though also the idea of trying to rid some of the excess water is easier said than done as for one likely there may be surfactants , emulsifiers , maybe even preservatives along with the 2% lidocaine. One thing with the place i use in china is they always claim and write it is something else more benign in the customs declaration though i don’t know that will work for your customs agents in wherever u live or not. Also u need to check whether it is any more effective using with epinephrine or without for the topical as injected lidocaine is certainly more effective with it. Don’t necessarily believe what ever that compounding person or anyone else in that pharmacy tells u.
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where did u see the solubility data of rapa in EVOO
about in the freezer . but that won’t stop virus’s as they do better in the cold than at room temperature
Some of this discussion here on DMSO has made me nervous — in particular the mention of denaturing skin cells with DMSO (I’m less nervous about transporting impurities through my skin). I have DMSO and would like to use it for my @desertshores - style skin spray. Would 5% DMSO (by volume) mixed in distilled water be gentle enough to use directly on skin 1-2x per day? Or would I need to dilute even further? It seems many of us are using 25% DMSO by volume on hair and skin and reporting good results (@Agetron and others). Is 5% DMSO too conservative?
I’ve read many papers and articles which even mention using 50-100% DMSO directly on skin, but if it is denaturing skin protein/collagen, I can’t imagine this wouldn’t have been noticed before.
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My own view is to keep DMSO at 10% or less. I use it at 10%. At higher percentages i get a bit of an itch which I consider to be symptomatic of it causing problems.
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Is transcutol better in this regard?
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Yes…
Excerpt From Book:
Cosmetic Dermatology, Draelos, Zoe Diana;
Chemical enhancers
They are also known as absorption promoters and accelerants which are “pharmacological inert, nontoxic, nonirritating, nonallergic, rapid onset of action, and suitable duration of action, inexpensive and cosmetically acceptable [14].” A number of solvents (e.g. ethanol, propylene glycol, Transcutol® [Gattefossé, Saint‐Priest, France], and N‐methyl pyrrolidone) increase permeant partitioning into and solubility within the stratum corneum, hence increasing KP in Fick’s equation (equation 9.1). Ethanol was the first PE cosolvent incorporated into transdermal systems [15]. Synergistic[…]” “Synergistic effects between enhancers (e.g. Azone® [PI Chemicals, Shanghai, China], fatty acids) and more polar cosolvents (e.g. ethanol, propylene glycol) have also been reported suggesting that the latter facilitates the solubilization of the former within the stratum corneum, thus amplifying the lipid‐modulating effect. Similarly, solvents such as Transcutol are proposed to act by improving solubility within the membrane rather than by increasing diffusion. Another solvent, dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), by contrast, is relatively aggressive and induces significant structural perturbations such as keratin denaturation and the solubilization of membrane components [16]. Table 9.2 is a list of the more commonly utilized chemical PEs.”
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Thank you, @RapAdmin : The quote you’ve highlighted is obviously strong. But we have a large number of people on this forum who are using DMSO for their skin/hair protocols (many using 25% by volume), and I don’t recall anyone mentioning “disfiguration” or other signs of protein denaturing (I’ve seen denatured skin from burns and I would think this is a noticeable side effect). Or are you suggesting this is a subtle effect we may not notice for many years, but will eventually impact the quality of our skin? Or are you saying this is an unquantified risk which isn’t worth taking given transcutol does the same job?
Below I’ve attached a fairly-recent review of side effects from DMSO use in the literature. I did not follow many of the huge number of study links in the paper, but (aside from the non-dermalogical complications) it appears skin-related side effects were largely limited to “burning sensation” which abated after consistent use, and “allergic reactions”. None referenced poorer skin quality — not arguing one reference bs another, but at least the review authors didn’t mention this if it were an issue, and I would think this would be a meaningful finding if true.
In your opinion are DMSO’s negative effects dose dependent? — ie are the risks of denaturing/“disfigurement” really with the 50%-100% DMSO solution treatments? And if 5% DMSO is used (or even more dilute solutions) would this greatly reduce (or eliminate) these potential risks?
(I probably should just buy a bottle of transcutol and stop asking, but I am excited to start.)
Results: We included a total of 109 studies. Gastrointestinal and skin reactions were the commonest reported adverse reactions to DMSO. Most reactions were transient without need for intervention. A relationship between the dose of DMSO given and the occurrence of adverse reactions was seen.
Conclusions: DMSO may cause a variety of adverse reactions that are mostly transient and mild. The dose of DMSO plays an important role in the occurrence of adverse reactions. DMSO seems to be safe to use in small doses.
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Bicep
#316
I used DMSO quite a lot for years mostly for arthritis. I used 80-90% with the remainder as distilled water. It itches for maybe 20 minutes. I also dissolved myristin in it and used it on joints.
I read in the DMSO book that you can’t carry things through the skin until it gets to like 90%, which is painful. I don’t know of anybody having trouble at all. My son used it on his forehead at above 90% to get rid of zits. One treatment and they were gone, though he regretted it and I don’t recommend it. And I didn’t recommend it to him. He used his own brain.
I currently brush my teeth with it at 40% and it is not uncomfortable at all and does not itch or anything. I sprayed some on the inside of my arm before typing this and as expected I can’t tell I’ve done anything.
There’s a lot of hype about it, but it doesn’t do much harm. Also not much good unfortunately.
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Yes - many people here are using DMSO with fine results, and its a long-used chemical, so I’m sure the safety profile is reasonably good. I’m not a biochemist or dermatologist and to be honest I haven’t spent a lot of time researching this.
The original formulations I came across for the rapamycin skin cream used transcutol so I’ve followed those papers I read. From my cursory review of the literature it seems that transcutol may be a little less harsh on the skin, but as I say, I’ve not done an exhaustive review of the literature and in no way am I am expert on this topic.
If I had DMSO I’d start with it and see how it goes. When I started I didn’t have anything, and transcutol was pretty easy to order (as easy as DMSO) so I went with it. I can see good arguments for using either chemical and I have no idea whether one formulation will perform better than the other; there have been no comparisons with regard to rapamycin that I know of.
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LaraPo
#318
Harm could be on a cellular level. Absence of immediate noticeable damage is not a proof that there’s no harm.
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DMSO is a molecule with complex effects.
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True enough, @LaraPo , but while “ Absence of immediate noticeable damage is not a proof that there’s no harm”, is there indication there is long-term harm? I’m obviously biased as I have a bottle of DMSO and am “itching” to get going (bad choice of words) but I’m having trouble finding real negatives outside high concentrations and theoretical assumptions. Is there a reference I’ve missed you feel is highly convincing?
And not to be obtuse (or argumentative), but I could probably make the same statement about most supplements/molecules discussed on this forum, including Rapamycin. I would also argue Rapamycin (until recently) and likely most molecules discussed herein, are/is far less-studied than DMSO.
I understand that your speciality appears to be in the skin care/rejuvenation area, so your thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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LaraPo
#321
I’m simply being cautious. It’s a potent solvent and it will carry “whatever” is on your skin or in the mixing container inside of you. There are many negative side effects listed if you Google it. It may induce histamine release with all the consequences, like CV reactions, abdominal pain, etc. And when you develop abdominal pain you wouldn’t even know if it’s pancreas, liver or smth else. I prefer to stay away from substances with such wide spectrum. Especially there anre other things available for the same purpose.
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What would you recommend?
LaraPo
#323
I use transcutol to dissolve rapamycin to add it to creams or na-pca base sprays.
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Do you use rapamycin powder or do you crush rapamycin pills yourself? I am wary od crushing the pils since most of the pill are other substances not rapamycin…
LaraPo
#325
I use coffee grinder to grind rapamycin.
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it is converted in the skin and body to msm for one. it doesn’t stay as dmso for long .and the itch or little burning ,sting whatever is gone within minutes at most
use the pure powder, that is purest u can get for reasonable price. Do not even think about making topical doing it the asinine and also ungodly expensive way with rapamune or whatever tablets
