#288

though in usa it is available at $43 for 500ml from Lab Alley though not sure what is the shipping fee if any though to ship to europe there for sure will be if they even ship it there. Available on ebay also but seems to be a much worse deal last i checked but that changes often. I think it was also listed at around $90 or so from lab alley for a gallon.

#289

got it at varun medical so then it was not pure rapamycin powder ? or was it anyway which u should have used if u didnā€™t. i made my own also but used over 95% pure rapamycin powder for my topical batch. In the following all are in grams: rapa 2 , polysorbate 80 28, dmso 44 , peg400 15 , vitamin E oil(mixture of olive oil and soybean oil with some vit E possibly added bought from ebay) 5 , soya oil 5 , glycerin 10 , msm 10, urea 10 , hydroxypropylmethylcellulose 4 , Carboxymethylcellulose 1.2 , ethanol 15.5 , isopropanol 28 , propylene glycol 25 , chitosan 0.7 , xanthan gum 1 , NaCl salt 1 , distilled h2o 200, benzyl alcohol 2.2 . Not mixed in the order just written but wonā€™t go into those details. Stirred with homemade like electric magnetic stirrer for maybe 10 or so hours occasionally heating total time about 1 hour up to around 50C and after then keep the batch in freezer except when applying to my skin or moving,traveling etc. There is some minor phase separation but not too bad. So the rapa concentration is approx. .5% and h2o approx. 50% by weight per total weight. Before applying the rapa topical batch usually apply a ā€˜primerā€™ made up of approx. dmso 30% , urea and msm 8% and alpha terpineol 2% in castor oil 2% ,vit c powder 8% , isopropanol 8%, propylene glycol and polysorbate 80 2% all in in h2o and wait 5 to 15 minutes till applying the rapa batch. In the main batch think it better to have not used so much polysorbate 80 nor propylene glycol and maybe less alcohol and next time will limit those to 4% max wt. per total wt. which above total is approx. 400grams and also less glycerin or omit that entirely.
,

#290

donā€™t know why they call it heavy since it is lighter than water at specific gravity of only .917 and lower viscosity of 84cp, h2o is 1cp, than most other oils. True it doesnā€™t quickly absorb into skin by itself. It contains a high percent of oleic acid which is known as a skin penetrant enhancer.

#291

Just a warning to those who go the homemade route. If you make the vehicle from scratch and you arenā€™t keeping it in the freezer, you must include a preservative. This is more complicated than it sounds, especially if you are using an emulsion, since some preservatives are rendered ineffective by emulsifiers. Some have activity that is pH dependent, and some are sensitive to cations and/or anions in the formulation.

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#292

Those using DMSO donā€™t have to worry. Solvents such as alcohol, and DMSO are antimicrobial in the concentrations used by most DIYs making their own rapamycin lotions, sprays etc. Others incorporate it in commercial creams already containing antimicrobials.
Also Transcutol in addition to being a solvent is also a surfactant. Transcutol is not a medium for growing bacteria.
ā€œsurfactants aid in the killing of microbes that cause illnessā€
Rapamycin is antifungal

Bottom line: I donā€™t think those making their own rapamycin creams or sprays need to worry about it.

Antimicrobial activity of dimethyl sulfoxide against Escherichia coli, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, and Bacillus megaterium

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jps.2600580708

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#293

I would not use topical DMSO. Iā€™d rather use ethanol or isopropanol, but most people would find that too irritating for use at concentrations high enough to be antibacterial and antifungal.

#294

@arugula
like i said i keep my concoctions in freezer when not in use.
i and most others use isopropanol and/or ethanol along with dmso and other surfactants, cosurfactants(of which isopropanol can also fit that bill), emulsifiers etc etc. And especially as in the literature if msm is used along with dmso it eases the undesirable effects of dmso esp as to odor(also while dmso may induce histamine release msm helps prevent it though it is rather strange since dmso turns into msm in the body) and if add urea it does even more. See the literature on how urea makes the skin much more susceptible to cortisone for example and other substances. Also benzyl alcohol, which i add to all my concotions, is a main constituent at 1% in many sterile water vials or only additional constituent in sterile water along with maybe salt at .9%

@LaraPo another quote from internet:

ā€™ How long does olive oil take to absorb into skin?
ā€¦
In addition, extra virgin olive oil absorbs quickly into the skin and after 15 minutes there is no trace of it.ā€™

seems internet is quite full of contradictions and disagreement which i have observed for quite a few years now on other subjects esp in the question and answer sections.

#295

Have you actually read this thread? Many people are using DMSO in concentrations enough to be antimicrobial. I prefer to use Transcutol as I find it more pleasant and has a nicer smell. In any case, I have been using it with rapamycin in a DIY spray for almost a year with no ill effects. If you have such an abundance of caution, I am surprised you are using rapamycin. IMO ethanol and isopropanol are poor substitutes for DMSO or Transcutol and are very drying to the skin.

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#296

Yes, I actually read the thread, and DMSO is highly atypical for use as a solvent for many reasons. I doubt a cosmetic chemist would every use it as a solvent and Iā€™ve never seen a product marketed for regular topical use that contains it. I am surprised that so many are being so nonchalant about its use.

#297

I agree - shelf-life of rapamycin creams is an issue. I think right now you want to use up any DIY rapamycin cream over a period of a few months (obviously this is a generalization as I donā€™t know exactly what ingredients you are using).

For more details and papers on this topic see this part of the rapamycin for skin thread: Rapamycin May Slow Skin Aging (Drexel U. Study) - #17 by RapAdmin

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#298

Would you care to tell more?

#299

actually i did not make the whole 400g total weight but around 180g with the same proportionality so just multiply all by 9/20 and i plan on using it for 9 months to finish all of it. To anyone planning on doing any formulations of topical rapa in my opinion DO NOT USE rapamune tablets or anything other than as pure rapamycin powder u can get for a reasonable price. That should go without saying to anyone with any common sense.If you wanted to add water to something would u use a watermelon. no think not but that makes a lot more sense than using rapamune as a watermelon is over 90% water, rapamune tablets are much less than 10% rapamycin.

#300

it isnā€™t true as dmso is very commonly used as a solvent. most all professional papers making rapamycin, tacrolimus and many other solution start off dissolving it in dmso. if u donā€™t believe i can quote many many professional papers. Then after that most get rid of the dmso in a low pressure atmosphere and etc. They arenā€™t concerned about price or the extra work and they also have the means to evaporate off or what ever u call it to rid the dmso. The layman usually does not. So professionals can use other rather than dmso as many object to the odor etc. etc. and that debate of the safety and so on of dmso has been going on and continuously going on - many say it is safe and no problem while others say it is not. Anyway the pros will avoid any controversy by using something else. Though there are a few which i have read that do use dmso till the end at usually between 10 and 25%. One is for sure the pros donā€™t start off using rapamune tablets.Though have read papers of amatuers and maybe some semi pros in some sense trying different additives such as cosmetic moisturizers etc. to rapamune tablets and the ones who came out ahead with the most rapa absorbed into the skin were the ones who used micellar water to ā€˜dissolveā€™ the tablets in that particular case comparison in a paper published on internet.

#301

I think DMSO is a little more aggressive in terms of its results than most skin companies wantā€¦ here is a quote from a cosmetic dermatology textbook:

Another solvent, dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), by contrast, is relatively aggressive and induces significant structural perturbations such as keratin denaturation and the solubilization of membrane components

See full info and quote in this post: Rapamycin for Hair Growth and Hair Pigmentation - #320 by RapAdmin

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#302

and also see the many papers that use in addition msm to negate many of the complains of dmso.

#303

Most of the people using DMSO instead of Transcutol do so because Transcutol is hard to obtain in Europe compared to DMSO.

ā€œDr. Mark V. on this forum recommends DMSO as a topical cream solvent and he is much more of an authority on this issue than meā€

ā€œDrexel U. study and the NIH recipes regarding topical cream recommend Transcutol as the solvent of choice.ā€

As far as using rapamycin from compounding pharmacies they must use excipients as physical carriers for the rapamycin. They are hardly going to supply you with undiluted rapamycin.
Water, transcutol, and DMSO provide no nutrients and do not themselves sustain bacteria.
Unless you are adding something like agar which is a bacterial growing media the bacteria wonā€™t grow in water

DMSO and Transcutol do not support bacterial growth, in fact, they suppress many bacteria.
As per Dr. B: ā€œRapamycin is a natural anti-fungal antibiotic produced by soil bacteria of Eastern Islandā€

Compared to cosmetics, all of which do not contain antibacterials BTW, DIY rapamycin creams/ sprays are made in small batches, do not get abnormal heat exposure, sit in distributorsā€™ warehouses for weeks or months, then transferred to store shelves where they may sit again for weeks or months and it gets used up in relatively short periods of time.

ā€œRapamycin for longevity: opinion article - PMCā€

#304

actually most of the articles for topical rapa donā€™t use either dmso nor transcutol and they are all over the board - hardly no generalities or standards. They are so varied it is difficult to make any generaliztions and definition of ā€™ best way '. For example here is another one in an article claiming this or that

For .1% rapa:
Rapamycin 0.02 g
Carbopol-974P 0.15 g
Glycerol 3.05 g
Absolute ethanol 6 g
Ī±-tocophĆ©rol 0.04g it is basically a form of vit E

Urea 0.2 g
Sterile water 20 g

another article : ā€˜Rapamycin-Loaded, CapryolTM 90 and Oleic Acid Mediated Nanoemulsions: Formulation Development, Characterization and
Toxicity Assessmentā€™ o/w,w/o mean oil in water,water in oil emulsions, ne means nano emulsionā€¦Mixtures of surfactants (Tween 20, Tween 80,
LabrasolĀ® and CremophorĀ® RH 40) and co-surfactants (Transcutol P, iso-propanol, PEG and PG) at different surfactant/co-surfactant weight ratios
(Rsm; namely, 1:2, 1:1, 2:1) were preparedā€¦ neā€™s have advantagesā€¦high solubilization capacity compared to simple micellar solutionsā€¦

regardless of type of surfactant, iso-propanol seemed to be the most appropriate co-surfactant for
producing o/w NEsā€¦The extent of NE domain in the presence of co-surfactants followed the order of iso-propanol > TranscutolĀ® P > PG > PEG 400ā€¦ for the formation of a NE, a single surfactant is rarely able to provide a low interfacial tension and
therefore, the addition of a co-surfactant is usually necessaryā€¦ without a co-surfactant, an extremely inflexible surfactant film may form, leading to the
production of nanoemulsions in very limited range of component concentrationsā€¦ Therefore, co-surfactant molecules (such alcohols with short and
medium chain length) are frequently used to further decrease the interfacial tension, increase the fluidity of the interfacial film allowing various
curvatures (43-47), reduce the bending stress of the boundary surface causing spontaneity of emulsification, lowering of size and polydispersity of
droplets ā€¦ if you look at their results list will see many of the best did not contain transcutol though some did.

primer ā€¦their use of oleic acid makes me think i should have used olive oil rather than any other oils and also not glycerin though in fact would probably not notice any difference or even not using any oils for that matter as i donā€™t have nearly the facilities and know how to even approximate a nano emulsion of their doing if at all.

i use dmso as it is proven many year standard as the best universal solvent and mainly i have plenty of it and no need to go out and by more different stuff and people have been using for years in every kind of way including in their eyes at greater than 50% with no problems so itā€™s a no brainer
and my solution works well and in fact i do have a pinpoint proof because in addition to face and forehead and sometimes back of hands and other misc areas i do hair but only put it along frontal hair line and side burn area which is usually the first to turn grayish and now it isnā€™t but in fact a little darker than the rest of the hair in general. So i have no reason not to use it like many many other people who have been using for years for all kinds of things on their body with no problem as one can attest by reading their reports. I am not interested in making money for the cosmetic industry by trying to say one should fret about this and that and ofcourse they would also not want to use it for the odor. Cosmetic industry is about the last to trust - they have more hype and unproven issues than most all others. Yea there are other more scientific objectors but for about each them you will others asserting itā€™s no problem and they have also been using it with no problem = see youtube and all elsewhere.

#305

regardless of what u use that is the main issue. DONā€™T USE RAPAMYCIN TABLETS

ON your next post there is an error statement: 1 milligram is 0.1% of 1 gram not .001% but i donā€™t know that that had anything to do with your calculation. 10mg in 100g is is ratio 10^(-4) is .01% not .001% so that is .01% rapa but how do u know u had 10mg rapa in the first place. From where did u get that ? not that it is necessarily wrong.

Also example of using dmso at 70% in the literature just below for topical anesthesia

@scta123 asking about how to make topical anestheticā€¦the lidocaine has to be at a much higher concentration than the 2 or 3% common for injections for topical and also must penetrate skin of which most all commercial products do not atleast not at all well eg emla cream and they are very poor providing very little relief if any in some situations. See article 'Topical Lidocaine for Anesthesia in Patients Undergoing Pulsed Dye Laser Treatment for Vascular Malformations
Topical lidocaine for anesthesia in patients undergoing ā€¦
National Institutes of Health (.gov)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov ā€ŗ ā€¦ S B Mallory [ 1 ]
(Topical lidocaine for anesthesia in patients undergoing pulsed dye laser treatment for vascular malformations - PubMed), P A Lehman, D R Vanderpool, T J Franz The abstract:

Abstract

Pulsed dye laser treatment of vascular malformations is moderately painful. Twenty-five percent lidocaine in 70% dimethyl sulfoxide-ethanol was used to achieve anesthesia in patients undergoing the procedure. Thirteen of 14 patients had some degree of anesthesia (average of 51%) ranging from 10% to 100%, with 8 of them experiencing good results (> 50% anesthesia). Diminishment of pain was assessed by comparison of laser therapy on lidocaine-treated versus untreated sites within the vascular malformation using verbal and visual analog scales. In vitro permeation demonstrated good absorption of lidocaine, peaking at one hour. Permeation of lidocaine was significantly greater then that observed from acid mantle cream or EMLA. Topical lidocaine at 25% concentration in dimethyl sulfoxide 70% was well tolerated and had no side effects except transient mild erythema.

Another use of dmso in invention.wee article Lidocaine hydrochloride, citric acid and dimethyl sulfoxide, solution, and formation thereof ā€™

Lidocaine hydrochloride, citric acid and dimethyl sulfoxide, solution, and formation thereof

Abstract

A solution of lidocaine hydrochloride, dimethyl sulfoxide and citric acid or citric acid monohydrate is prepared, for topical application to an animal or human.

Blockquote

Another article also suggesting how one can make topical anesthetic which highlights alpha terpineol as superior. The effects of some permeability enhancers on the percutaneous absorption of lidocaine

Now i am waiting till i get back to states and then i will just buy lidocaine powder and maybe tetracaine powder from Mesochem in China instead of just evaporating the water out of the 2 or 3% injectable lidocaine that i have as i did before which is more tedious and expensive.

@Alpha you said ā€˜I have powdered Rapamycin in capsules from a compounding pharmacy.ā€™ Rapa and what else did the compounding place say
or did he say ? was in the capsules. Unless they are really tiny capsules or you paid a fortune for them and even if u did i sincerely doubt that it
is even 10% rapa. What did u pay for how many of what size capsules 00 , #1 ,000 or what size ?

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#306

just because u havenā€™t seen it does not mean it does not exist. There are plenty of examples in posts below or above for one using it at 70% in topical anesthetic superior to conventional EMLA and more

#307

Thx. I must ask in compounding pharmacy how they get their lidocaine for creams. I ordered 20% lidocaine cream some time ago, but surely was without DMSO and I can report back that it did nothing in terms of anesthesia. If they have powder I can order that and some DMSO (maybe transcutol would be a good idea too?). Unfortunately I live in Europe and Chinese powders would be confiscated by customs.

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