#101

I should add to this point that I only got through the terrible desire to eat more on day 2 because I paid $150 and by God I was not going to quit. If I wasn’t constrained by that damned box I wouldn’t have made it. Perhaps in the future I will be stronger.

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#102

The Prolon people say to ease back into eating. I nibbled this AM with no trouble but when I ate more after my workout, my stomach hurt for 30 minutes. I will keep the harder to digest stuff out of my mouth today: raw veg, dairy, etc

I will be eating less dairy. That only means returning to sane amounts, and not eating anything every single day.

And yes, the fixed program, 1-size-fits-all means the bigger people cut back more. Plus I exercised hard. Maybe that’s why I have such a profound effect (or maybe it’s the stoppage of my normal diet; inflammatory foods)

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#103

I agree with you. The cost and pre-packaging make it easier to stick with the program.

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#104

LOL, yes, money can provide significant motivation!

I don’t know if I grasped the issue, but I think that refeed entails returning to normal but progressively, following the neurological signals of satiety and not forcing food down. During the first day, the digestive system may not be ready yet. This issue is not as pronounced as in total fasting. After a 5 days total fast returning to normal on refeeding may mean disaster.

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#105

On to the next FMD (going monthly now). My plan to skip breakfast didn’t take so now I’m back to planning to skip or radically shrink dinner some or most days. The yogurt is gone along with the walnuts I enjoyed very much.

As far as a guessed at inflammatory issue from yogurt, I didn’t feel any benefit from dropping the Greek yogurt (2 weeks ago) but my body aches vanished in 1 day under the FMD rather than 3+ days before. I also got into ketosis after one day rather than by the 3rd morning. I think the diet changes are good ones.

I did my spin class and upper body weights today. Felt normal but didn’t push it as this is my recovery week (hard, harder, hardest, easy).

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#106

Based on feelings or have you been measuring?

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#107

@neo. No measurements. But I can feel it. I did keto years ago and I know the feeling. It’s a nice sense of not needing food anymore (I don’t mean I really don’t ever need food; it’s just a switch that turned off so that I don’t feel hungry anymore). After 5 days I’ll start to wonder if I can really live on sunshine (a la Jack Kruse), but that’s for another day.

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#108

@约瑟夫_拉维尔

I’m FINALLY doing my next round of Prolon tomorrow.

From what you learned by interviewing the Prolon guy, is my old thinking accurate, that I should not take any of my supplements, but keep taking all of my prescriptions, even the ones I could live without? Or??

The only reason to stop anything would be if it somehow blocked the autophagy magic of the FMD.

I do assume I should stop my acarbose and dapagliflozin that would prevent my glucose spikes from prolon incase that messes with the results? I don’t need those prescriptions

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#109

@Beth I actually don’t recall the details but would safely assume prolon would not tell anyone to stop prescription medications but would say to stop supplements not recommended by your doctor. My thinking is it’s a good idea to take supplement breaks anyway so why not stop anything you can stop safely. I only take a few supplements everyday anyway (except for the 5-day FMD when I only take what Prolon provides).

Good luck! Tomorrow is my FMD day 5, so it’s back to eating food again soon. I miss eating but I do love how good I feel when I do the FMD.

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#110

Congrats on finishing yet another round!! Interesting you don’t feel the benefit of no dairy unless you are doing prolon?

It’s been over a year since my last round. This is probably the 14th-ish.

The idea of no morning latte is beyond brutal, but as we’ve discussed, my LDN has killed my food cravings, so feeding myself has become pure drudgery. The idea of eating pre-made food, even if in a package, sounds like a vacation. (If you knew me, you would know how hilarious this sounds)

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#111

Enjoy!

As I think about FMD (after 3 runs), for me it’s all good but some of the benefits are more important than others.

Every time I do a FMD, I get a chance to reset my habits.

  • can I keep my caffeine intake at 2 cups of tea per day? Why don’t I save it for days / times when I need it vs everyday? Will that habit creep back into prominence?
  • can I continue with the tiny dinners or move to no dinners (a long held goal)? I feel close now.
  • can I continue with the less (calories) is more program? My recovery from exercise is so much better when I am on a FMD that it disproves my long-held assumption that i need to feed my body extra calories and protein to recover and get stronger. A calorie surplus might be necessary in the long run but definitely not everyday.
  • I have stopped yogurt for good. I want to see if leaving out the dairy will have an effect over time.

Much to ponder.

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#112

Wow! This study is crazy and it should be front page! Has these been confirmed in humans?

This paper about high vs low protein while weight training or not…in mice…is very interesting.

  • Resistance training is good
  • High protein isn’t necessary for the benefits of resistance training.

biorxiv.org

2022.10.18.512689v1.full.pdf

2.32 MB

High protein + weight training outperformed low protein + weight training only in the short term. But both can achieve the same strength in the long run.

Now that I think of it makes sense: maintaining muscle requires far less protein than gaining muscle so the Low Protein can maintain fit body types.

The most important part of the equation is training consistently and we could use high protein very sporadically or only at the beginning.

My contribution would be that theoretically Blood Flow Restriction training should require even less protein due to the low damage done to the muscle.

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#113

Day #1 with no caffeine report

The days started well. I had a good night sleep which gave me the courage to try this experiment. Without the caffeine my morning workout didn’t feel different (good). And then the start of the workday began with a strange calmness which I enjoyed very much (good). By the afternoon I was feeling flat. It wasn’t a lack of alertness, but rather a mood resembling a lack of care about anything. I went through the motions of doing my work. This was bad. The end of the day was aided by a warm sunny late afternoon which I used to sit by the lake in full sunshine for 30 minutes about ½ way through my 2.5 mile walk. My last FMD dinner (if you can call it that) ended without hunger or stress. I fell asleep easily and drugless and had another good night sleep.

I’m going to keep going caffeine-less to see where this leads me.

Update. It’s now day 4 of my no-caffeine experiment. I no longer feel a pull or desire to have caffeine but I am still dealing with tiredness in the afternoon.

Here is what Claude AI says about the process

By day 3 of a caffeine washout, your body is going through several key physiological changes:

Adenosine receptors are beginning to normalize. Caffeine blocks these receptors, and now they’re becoming more sensitive again, which can temporarily increase feelings of fatigue but will eventually restore normal energy regulation.

Blood pressure is likely decreasing as vasoconstriction effects fade. You might notice slightly lower readings if you monitor your blood pressure. (I have noticed this; I had to stop another experiment with citrulline to stop low BP)

Heart rate is typically returning to your natural baseline after caffeine’s stimulatory effects diminish. (My sleeping HR remains low after my FMD)

Brain chemistry is rebalancing, particularly dopamine systems that were affected by regular caffeine use. (Perhaps this is the “flat” feeling I had in day 1)

Sleep architecture is improving - you’re likely experiencing deeper sleep phases than when consuming caffeine regularly. (I feel this; also easier to fall back asleep after a bathroom visit)

By days 4-7, most people experience significant improvement in symptoms, with complete physiological readjustment typically occurring within 1-2 weeks.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

This feels like it will stick. As to whether my life is better, time will tell.

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#114

I love the updates!

I’m forever fascinated by how differently we are all wired. This is my caffeine story… as boring as it is!

Five years ago when I did my first round of Prolon (I remember because it was early covid and I thought I should work on my immune system!). I didn’t have any espresso, and I had a headache the entire time. I almost fainted on the morning of the fourth day (I’m not a fainter and not sure it was related to caffeine). I did eventually feel the euphoria some people report.

During every round since, aprox 13 of them, I have one cup of espresso each morning (plain coffee, blech), and I’ve never had a headache again. FWIW, I’ve also never felt faint again, nor the euphoria, nor any differences.

Well, yesterday, my first day of my most recent round, I was inspired by you and skipped my espresso. ‘Big Mistake. Big. Huge’. I had a raging caffeine withdrawal headache that started by aprox 10am and lasted until I went to sleep.

I just had my plain espresso and will continue until it ends.

It’s interesting that even though I only have one latte per day (two on rare days), I am so sensitive to the withdrawal.

I was caffeine free for several years and it was no problem, but when traveling to visit my future husband and discovering there were almost no diet caffeine free drinks available where he lived (years ago before I learned to like water), I’d have caffeine, and then upon returning home and not having it, I’d have to ‘detox’ again. Eventually, I gave in because having a headache was not worth it. Also of note, I’m not one to get headaches easily, and perhaps get one per year.

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#115

@Beth Remeber that I only went caffeine free after 5 days of very low caffeine during the FMD. I had an off ramp. Cold turkey is very hard. I’m not certain no caffeine is for the best but I’ve never tried it so here it goes.

It is far too easy to rationalize the use of caffeine or alcohol or anything else I want to use. Sometimes I go against my instincts just to see if it’s my instincts or my brain tricking me.

I still miss alcohol but I’m confident near zero alcohol is best. But I’m not fanatical about it since apparently I can have 1 beer or whatever without relapsing.

We’ll see about the caffeine.

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#116

Interesting, because there’s caffeine in tea, black, green, white. And cocoa. So none of these either? I am not giving up caffeine, as it has too many benefits itself, not to mention the other beneficial compounds in coffee, tea, cocoa. But that depends on dosage. You can definitely overdo it. I happen to be a fast metabolizer, but many experience negative side affects, disrupted sleep and so on. Once again, it’s down to the individual - precision medicine, diet and personalized lifestyle optimization are the holy grail. There’s only so much you can learn from the experience of others. How do you react to caffeine? I personally love it and feel very lucky that it’s available to me and have no intention of ever stopping. YMMV.

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#117

@约瑟夫_拉维尔 just curious here, why do they limit caffeine during the Prolon fast? What’s the reason, if you can obtain it without calories such as in teas? I thought the whole point was to trick the body into thinking it’s in starvation while maintaining muscle mass. How would more than whatever their intake limit of caffeine is (140mg?) get in the way of that, and the ensuing autophagy?

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#118

From Prolon site:
Caffeine mildly stimulates the nutrient sensing pathway called the PKA pathway (as well as some other pathways) that ProLon down-regulates. For this reason, it is best to avoid caffeine during the diet, although you may have up to 140mg of caffeine of caffeine each day, which is equivalent to approximately one 8-12 oz cup of black coffee, two cups of black or green caffeinated tea, OR 6 cups of decaffeinated coffee, all traditionally brewed.

Gearing up to start an FMD tomorrow–will try to limit to 1 cup of coffee per day.

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#119

Good luck. Report back on your experience.

#120

You are right that caffeine is in or added to many products. I’ll avoid all the major sources as the idea is to be essentially free of caffeine long enough to know what it feels like. Of course it will be hard to give up, as my mind will come up with many reasons why it is good for me and why my life is better with it. But such is the nature of addiction. Maybe my brain is right. But if it isn’t I’ll find out.

1 Like