#81

If you want to look for a replacement….

No idea if you’d like this, but I make my own soy yogurt (easier than making oatmeal). The key thing is to strain it… at that point it becomes thick and sour like Greek yogurt. How long you ‘cook’ it and how much you strain controls the level of sour. It’s significantly better than store bought vegan yogurt, but you still might not like it.

The best store bought vegan I’ve had is forager cashewmilk plain unsweetened … and then there are a couple of great brands of coconut yogurt that are better, but they contain too much sat fat for what I can handle. I’ll look up the brands if you want to experiment.

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#82

@Beth i won’t make it but if you have a brand to try I’m game. Thanks.

I’m after the protein.

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#83

知道了！

The homemade soy yogurt is the only option I know if with decent protein (10 grams per cup).

Forager has only 3gm per 5 ounces, and I just looked at the coconut probiotic yogurts and they have 0 protein, so I have nothing to offer you!!! :frowning:

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#84

Thanks anyway. I just need to not eat it everyday. (Sigh).

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#85

Update: today is day #4 of my 3rd FMD. I had a breakthrough insight that I wanted to document. But first I’ll say that I have zero hunger and feel amazingly healthy. I feel better than normal.

I just ate my prolon breakfast bar (my only calories, 250kcal, until noon). It tasted very good. I delayed eating it for an hour after waking just to see if I could. I had no cravings for food at all.

This experience makes me wonder why I feel a need to eat so many calories normally. My body works hard to use the excess calories and resorts to storing some of the extra. What other bodily processes are being upregulated to take advantage of the excess calories? I doubt it good news.

When I am in my normal life I am hungry a lot of the time. I never eat because I’m bored; I don’t have access to snack foods. But clearly I can live well on less calories, at least while I have fat stores to use (I have lost 10 lbs in 4 days, some of it must be fat).

While I ponder a way to regularly (not necessarily everyday) eat less, I’m going to do a FMD every month.

Now, off to the gym for my full body weight workout. I don’t feel any muscle weakness but this will be the test.

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#86

A FMD once every month would be an exceptionally healthy practice, but of course, you would have to check your body’s reactions. Above all, check that your lean mass would not reset to a lower amount.

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#87

@mccoy I agree. I wouldn’t tolerate my muscle mass declining. I’m not sure how much I care about the rest of my “lean” mass. I should be happy to carry around less waste and water. Perhaps some of my other organs will shrink a bit. My bones are in great shape according to my Dexa last Summer; I’ll keep those too.

Today is the last day. I have zero energy loss (unlike day 1 & 2 during which I endured low mental energy). I did my rapa dose on day 1 which I think made the start harder but the overall result much better than the previous 2 times.

I amazingly feel like I could keep going, but 5 days once a month FMD is enough until I figure out a way to stick with a plan that has calorie surplus some days and calorie deficit others.

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#88

The organs should return to their original size, if refeeding is done correctly.

I too had the same feeling, at the end of the 5 days, having lost hunger and wondering about continuing the fast. I would have done it if I had been overweight. I have the opposite problem though.

According to Longo, once a month is the maximum frequency (it’s used with cancer patients). Also, if the FMDs are longer than 5 days once a month could be too much. Joel Khan, the vegan cardiologist, said in a podcast (with Rich Roll) that he does the FMD once every month. But he’s very lean and seemingly not muscular.

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#89

@mccoy Interesting. Years ago I dieted down to 183 from 238lbs over about 1 year. I got back into my high school size pants but I weighed less than I did as I senior in high school (when I was very lean and bodybuilding). I did lose muscle despite lifting during that period because I didn’t have much fat left and I was chasing weight loss (I had learned to enjoy feeling hungry).

I’m 205 now (post FMD). Last summer when I was 205 my dexa said I was 16% BF, and I was then and now at lifetime high muscle mass. I’m aiming for 195 lbs (estimate for very low visceral fat) but my priority is fitness, strength, and energy-level.

I no longer enjoy feeling hungry. Getting too small won’t be my problem.

#90

Concluding update on my 3rd FMD.

  • I lost 10 lbs including 5 from the 3 days leading up the the kickoff (mindset improvement). The fat storage (love handles) that I acquired over the holidays and since my last FMD disappeared. I lost zero weight in last 2 days, oddly.
  • I lost all the body soreness remaining from my house move exhaustion (lower back finally feels normal)
  • day 1 & 2 were hard possibly related to my rapa dose on day 1. But the remainder was easy, hungerless, feeling amazing (ketosis).
  • I was able to maintain my normal exercise and sauna regime and benefited from almost zero soreness in muscles or joints. Zero energy loss. In fact my power was unchanged while my exercising HR was lower.
  • another change (in addition to rapa) was the addition of fiber, glutamine and probiotics to my prolon dinner each night to give my gut some support during the FMD. The benefit if any will be seen during the refeed. The extra calories were more than offset by my spin classes and weight lifting and daily 4 mile walks.
  • my sleeping low HR dropped from 42 to 36 bpm. My HRV skyrocketed but my sleep was disrupted.
  • the big takeaway was the emotional recognition (again) of needing less calories than my hunger feelings would tell me. I’ve decided to do monthly FMD until I commit (emotionally) on a calorie balanced (some over, some under) feeding plan.
  • I am also investigating the likely inflammatory effects of one or more of my normal foods that I eat too often. More diversity; less everyday foods.
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#91

Congrats on another FMD!

Ok, so I want to ask if you were worried you would undo the magical fmd effects with adding additional things, but you obviously weren’t.

Can you speak to why? When I do it, I don’t take anything other than thyroid or heart rx’s because I’m too afraid to tinker and risk making it not count.

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#92

That’s very interesting, unfortunately, I never felt this beneficial effect.

By the way, Longo in some of his podcasts says that the Yamanaka factors are activated during the FMD or fasting

And you see the kidney basically turning on these developmental genes, right, including Yamanaka factors, these reprogramming factors. So these factors have the ability to turn any cell into a sort of young pluripotent stem cell.

So you see that the kidney is basically being reprogrammed to go back to a young pluripotent normal state.

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#93

@Beth Yes, it was a gamble but it appears to have paid off. I wasn’t worried about the autophagy aspect as I was burning calories exercising that Prolon says not to do. I burned at least 2750 kcal = 750 x 2 + 250 x 5 lifting / spinning/ walking.

The main thinking was that I have worked hard to get my gut right with my higher fiber intake and I wanted to try to sustain it during the fast. The refeed is normally tricky as the gut readjusts to solid food in normal volumes. I can tell that I will have an adjustment period but hopefully a short one given my intervention.

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#94

Interesting. I have gotten this chronic and post workout pain relief each time I’ve done a FMD. Even this morning after my spin class and upper body weight lifting I feel very good….less achy (so far). Of course weight loss is also useful but I haven’t ever sustained any weight loss from a FMD. This time I hope to do so. I lost more weight this time and I’m now focused on adjusting my eating habits.

#95

Very interesting catching up with all this. Is the $150 what it costs to eat for 5 days on this plan?

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#96

I do wonder… the prolon fast must be much more aggressive for big bodied men with higher caloric expenditure than to the little women like us who need fewer calories at rest. So I wonder how that factors into how effective it is for various people. Do they have any data looking at effects adjusted for BMI or ideal weight?

#97

Yes, the 5-day FMD is $15o on my Fullscript site. It’s much more on Amazon or the Prolon website but they do run promotional offers occasionally. I used the Black Friday deal last year.

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#98

Not that I know, I’ve examined the data on the patent, but I remember the adjustment is small and probably there are no different-size packages even now, maybe a marketing issue.

I’m afraid I’ve lost the material I collected 8-9 years ago, I also posted it in the CRsociety forum, which is now closed

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#99

It is possible to spend very little at home, probably 50 U$ for a cycle or much less.

The ingredients are known, supplements included.

The rules are simple: about 1050 kCal first day, 735 from 2nd to 5th, macros = 45/45/10 Carbs/fat/protein, all vegan food.
Refeed at libitum: one day vegan, other days as usual.

I’ve done 13 home-made FMDs, I’m not sure that there is a significant difference between the Prolon package and home-made, surely home-made is healtier , Prolon is hassle-free though.

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#100

It’s interesting that the refeed is an adjustment for you. I wonder if that is ‘you’ specific, or it shows the difference if one eats WFPB. I say that because I’ve done it over a dozen times and eat normally on day 6 and I don’t notice anything.

If you are eating something inflammatory for you, as you suspect with the yogurt, it will be interesting to see how you do now that you are going to limit it.

Having said that, as a smaller person, I would eat less than you, so I imagine the adjustment is smaller, regardless of diet?

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