#41

Let me push back a little. And get your thoughts. (If this should be its own thread, please feel free to make it so.)

Lysine helps activate mTOR, yes, but under what conditions? What dose? Frequency? Cofactors? Nutrients?

I have a one-time-thus-far high-impact result taking lysine with rapamycin that, if it repeats, would be a game-changer for me taking rapa.

My limiting factors for taking rapa (even at low doses) have been reactivated-EBV (think flu) and difficult-to-control hives. When I introduced lysine, neither was a limiting factor. The difference was significant even at low doses of lysine.

Of course I don’t want to activate mTOR, so let’s talk about lysine’s involvement in activating mTOR. I leaned on CHATGPT4 and Gemini to educate me about how I might take lysine yet avoid mTOR activation. Here are my take-aways:

  • Lysine’s role in activating mTOR is both context-dependant and indirect – it contributes to nutrient sensing but is not a primary driver of mTOR the way the essential amino acid leucine is. For lysine to active mTOR requires other EAA; lysine can’t activate mTOR by itself.

How to take lysine with minimal mTOR activation?

  • keep lys dose low – below 1g, preferably below .5g
  • avoid taking lys with leucine in particular, or any insuline-spiking foods
  • avoid taking lys with proteinogenic amino acids (so taurine is fine, as is magnesium, which are part of my nightime stack)
  • take in fasted state, or with non-nutritive compounds (no carbs and fats)
  • remain in fasted state 1-2 hours following (depending on dose) before adding nutrients/EEA

From this I conclude that I could take a small amount of lysine, like 250mg, stay fasted for another 1-2hrs, and not activate mTOR, or activate so minimally as to be irrelevant to rapamycin’s effect.

Your thoughts?

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Bryan Johnson stops rapamycin
#42

I think you are correct, I was in a hurry and jumped in to equate the impact of leucine to lysine. I think your information is likely more accurate.

2 Likes
#43

I’m about to order melatonin powder from BulkSupplements, 25 grams of powder
for $15.96; that’s $4.66 a year if I stay at 20 mg per night. Really cheap. I found this
because I wanted to get away from taking tablets or capsules at bedtime. With only
a little water, I sometimes feel a little stomach pain, and I don’t want to take much
water at bedtime. I have a milligram scale and I think the smallest spoon in this set
from Amazon should be about 20 mg:
New Star Foodservice 42924 Stainless Steel Measuring Spoons Set, Mini

3 Likes
#44

@sol, thank you for pushing through and finding a simple solution to your rapa-driven EBV flareups.

I took 4mg of rapa and started experiencing flu-like symptoms a couple days later - how soon did you typically experience EBV symptoms after taking a dose?

I can’t say for sure the infection and the rapa are related, but I’m the only one in the house that is sick, and the symptoms are unusual - some 9 days after onset, I still have a sore throat. Usually, a sore throat from viral infections is an early symptom that disappears fairly quickly. This one is not giving up.

This is early in my testing of rapamycin, only the third week of titration, so I may be overreacting. But when I start up again, we will see if this comes back, and I will try lysine if it does.

#45

That is a very unusual side effect. I have never had flu like symptoms with rapamycin… not even when I had 20mg a week. Now I am back down to 3mg for a few weeks to see if I need more. The worst side effect I got was my gout flare up… but it is a balancing act to keep it from flaring.

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#46

I asked Nick from Physionic about competing of Taurine and Glycine.

He said, he wouldnt worry about it too much.

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#47

I just checked my Chronometer, on my plant-based diet I am getting around 5g of Isoleucine per day.

Beans and lentils are loaded … damn it … Thats my main source of Protein that I love :frowning:

1 Like
#48

See link below, from myfooddata.com.

https://tools.myfooddata.com/nutrient-ranking-tool/isoleucine/beans-and-lentils/highest/household/common/no

One can toggle the results from highest to lowest.

#49

Are you a member and if so, do you find it worthwhile?

1 Like
#50

I took 4mg of rapa and started experiencing flu-like symptoms a
couple days later - how soon did you typically experience EBV
symptoms after taking a dose?

Anywhere from a few hours to a few days. I speculate that this variable delay depends on a number of individual factors, such as rapa dose, how long between doses, what else you’re taking, how accurately you identify the symptoms, and all the other possible inputs.

I can’t say for sure the infection and the rapa are related, but I’m
the only one in the house that is sick, and the symptoms are unusual

  • some 9 days after onset, I still have a sore throat. Usually, a
    sore throat from viral infections is an early symptom that
    disappears fairly quickly. This one is not giving up.

While I typically don’t get a sore throat from EBV reactivation, that’s a known possible symptom. Keep in mind that ill effects from a rapa dose can manifest in many ways. If your body on rapa is having trouble fighting off invaders, that can be viral or bacterial.

This is early in my testing of rapamycin, only the third week of
titration, so I may be overreacting. But when I start up again, we
will see if this comes back, and I will try lysine if it does.

I don’t know anything about your body size, but if you’re titrating up and are at 4mg three weeks in, that 's a fast titration in my experience. 4mg could be a solidly high dose for you. It would be for me; I took me months to get to that dose, and had to back off from it.

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#51

I am not subscribed, Im free user.

1 Like