#23

I just wanted to expand a little on one of the studies I posted above. Can folks at some point take some of these vaccines as anti-cancer agents? Is that even practical or dangerous? I’m vaccine reticent, and haven’t taken the covid vaccine, but I believe that might be a different type of vaccine than some of these others.

Of the initial list of 31 infectious diseases for which a preventive vaccine exists, we found data supporting a possible therapeutic role in oncology for 16 of them

For 10 vaccines (BCG, diphtheria, tetanus, HPV, influenza, measles, pneumococcus, smallpox, typhoid and varicella-zoster), clinical trials have been conducted or are ongoing. Within the remaining 6, strong preclinical evidence supports further evaluation of the rotavirus and yellow fever vaccine in carefully designed clinical trials.

All the vaccines we have identified are intended to induce or improve anti-tumor (immune) responses. However, practical aspects and mechanisms of action are very different from one vaccine to another and from trial to trial. Some vaccines may be effective as single agents (typhoid, measles, yellow fever vaccine) while others are considered in combination with existing or experimental immunotherapies (Td, influenza, pneumococcus and rotavirus vaccine).

#24

I have not looked much into the direct influence of these for anti-tumor activity, but by maintaining immune health and reducing infection-induced inflammation / infection-induced cancers, they may as well help to prevent cancer.

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#25

Besides the yearly flu vaccine, which vaccine should be given and how often? Each country has different guidelines. Do we know what’s best?

Here are the recommendations for healthy adults in the US, the UK, and some wealthy countries with long life expectancy. Besides the cost, I wonder what led to these differences:

Vaccine France US UK Canada Singapore Australia Switzerland HK Sweden Israel
Flu Yearly from 65yo Yearly for all adults Yearly from 65yo Yearly for all adults Yearly from 65yo Yearly from 65yo Yearly from 65yo Yearly from 65yo Yearly from 65yo Yearly from 65yo?
Diphtheria and tetanus Every 20y then every 10y from 65yo Every 10y x Every 10y x x Every 20y then every 10y from 65yo x Every 20y Every 10y from 65yo?
Poliomyelitis Every 20y then every 10y from 65yo x x x x x Every 20y then every 10y from 65yo x x x
Pertussis 1 dose at 25yo x x 1 dose in adulthood x x x 1 dose at 25yo x x
Shingles 1 dose at 65yo 2 doses at 50yo 1 dose at 65yo 2 doses at 50yo x x 2 doses at 65yo 2 doses at 65yo x x
Pneumococcal x 1 or 2 doses at 50yo 1 dose at 65yo 1 dose at 65yo 1 dose at 65yo x 1 dose at 65yo x 1 dose at 65yo 1 dose at 65yo
RSV x 1 dose at 75yo 1 dose at 75yo 1 dose at 75yo x x x x x ???

[Sept 2024 update: US CDC lowered the recommended age for pneumococcal vax from 65 to 50yo.]

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Vaccination strategies
Predicting Alzheimers & Dementia (and minimizing risk)
#26

If I remember correctly:

Shingles vaccine which is probably good to protect against dementia.
Pneumococcal vaccine which might be good against dementia, will protect against some sinus infections too.
HPV vaccine that will protect against some cancers, if not already infected.

Propylactic anti-viral Valaciclovir possibly to protect against MS which probably caused by EBV.

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#27

Totally, see: Virus exposure and neurodegenerative disease risk across national biobanks 2023

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Of the 22 significant and replicated pairings, lag data was available for 16 pairs. Six of those pairing remained significant 5–15 years before NDD diagnosis, with hazard ratios for associations ranging from 1.49 (dementia and influenza and pneumonia) to 4.98 (AD and meningitis – note: this grouping also included bacterial ICD10 codes for meningitis). Looking at all FinnGen virus-NDD pairings for which data was available, 17 pairs remained significant at 5–15 years between exposure and diagnosis; dementia and infectious mononucleosis (EBV) had the highest hazard ratio (9.00). No pairings were significant at lag 15 for ALS or PD.
Recent research supports this idea. Influenza and pneumonia vaccination has been found to reduce risk for AD and PD. Shingles (varicella-zoster) vaccination is associated with a reduced risk of dementia, AD, and PD in both the United States and Wales. Despite these findings, influenza vaccination coverage in the United States is typically less than 50%. Only about 35% of people over the age of 60 have received a shingles vaccine. Increasing the use of widely available vaccines may give clinicians a way to help their patients reduce their overall risk of NDD later in life.
More research is needed into the role vaccinations might play in the prevention of NDD. Efficacious viral vaccines would limit virus spread, reduce viral load at infection initiation, and prevent aberrant immune reactivity. This may in turn play a role in downstream NDD pathogenesis, as growing and robust evidence points toward the immune system response and neuroinflammation as major disease contributors. Since the viral warts endpoint also includes papillomaviruses, we wonder if increased use of the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine in younger populations might lead to a decrease in certain dementias in those groups as they age. The recent advent of messenger RNA vaccine technology holds promise in revolutionizing the prevention of viral infections.

So, you want to avoid all viral infections. This argues in favor of yearly flu shots.

What about other vaccines? Should we wait until age 50 or 65 to get a shingles and pneumococcal shot? Or is there a case for a first shot in early adulthood (around 25 years old) and then a booster at age 50?

And what if you didn’t get the shots during childhood? I didn’t get the HPV (it was only for girls in France until 2021), and the CDC notes that:

HPV vaccination is not recommended for everyone older than age 26 years.
Some adults ages 27 through 45 years who were not already vaccinated might choose to get HPV vaccine after speaking with their doctor about their risk for new HPV infections and possible benefits of vaccination for them.
HPV vaccination of adults provides less benefit, because more people in this age range have been exposed to HPV already.

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#28

I’ve gotten I think three vaccines of HPV relatively recently Gardasil 9 which protects against nine variants, I just don’t see the downside even if someone has been infected by most of the variants. I’ll probably be taking shingles and pneumococcal vaccine too as well. Using anti-virals prophylactically probably makes sense as well right now depending on the risks of the drugs as there isn’t any vaccine against EBV. There’s other studies like this pre-print about shingles vaccine:

There’s potential to find all the vaccines which are a good idea to take (and which anti-virals are a good idea).

See this other thread as well:

Flu vaccine every year already is an easy decision.

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#29

Thanks. Makes sense to me. But how do you get them?

My brother and his girlfriend (both 25yo) got pertussis (whooping cough) in Paris recently although both vaccinated in childhood (but they didn’t have the 25yo booster), they’ve been coughing for 2 months to the point of almost breaking their ribs. I’m glad I had the pertussis booster at age 25…

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#30

If they are approved for children or adults 18 years or above, you can just get them at a vaccine clinic that offers them I think. I see no issue in this clinic for example in London for HPV:

Can you get the vaccine if you are over age of 26?
Yes. Both men and women can have an HPV vaccine ap until age 45 in the UK. The vaccine is most effective prior to sexual activity but offers protection to all who’ve not been exposed to contained HPV strains

HPV Vaccination | For Children and Adults | Fleet Street Clinic

Shingrix seems more difficult in the UK, but it is approved for those with reduced immunity above 18. I don’t know how that works there, if in worst case scenario it works if someone is taking rapamycin weekly (or just fly to somewhere it is available for all over 18) :man_shrugging:

A doctor can also probably prescribe these vaccines.
I need to check up on all the boosters I have to take.

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#31

Thanks. You’re right I checked and I can get them easily. I assumed that I would need a prescription. But it looks like you need a prescription for any drug but somehow for vaccine you can get any vaccine you want privately :man_shrugging:

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#32

That’s a plus, they are so safe they are available OTC almost basically.

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#33

I agree. I’ll get the HPV one as I didn’t get it, it’s a no brainer. Still, I’d like to see if there are at least some studies on giving the shingles and pneumococcal to people below 50.

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#34

This paper suggests that the pneumococcal vaccine should be given to all adults aged 50, instead of 65: Cost-effectiveness of revised US pneumococcal vaccination recommendations in underserved minority adults < 65-years-old

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#35

@AnUser FYI:

The Shingrix shingles vaccine is not approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in people under 50 years of age. However, adults 19 years and older with weakened immune systems may also get two doses of shingles vaccine, due to a higher risk of getting shingles and related complications.
The vaccine has only been tested in adults 50 years and older and The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), a committee that is part of the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), does not recommend zoster vaccination for people younger than age 50 years regardless of their history of shingles.

I’ll have wait for Shingrix I guess.

What about the BCG booster @AnUser: did you do it? I’m not sure I would be willing to buy this on IndiaMart…

From Jan 2024: Vaccines and Dementia: Part II. Efficacy of BCG and Other Vaccines Against Dementia Vaccines and Dementia: Part II. Efficacy of BCG and Other Vaccines Against Dementia - IOS Press

Five studies to date have determined that intravesicular BCG administration, the standard of care for bladder cancer, is followed by a mean ∼45% reduction in subsequent AD development in these patients. Although this could potentially be ascribed to confounding factors, the finding that other routine vaccines such as against shingles (herpes zoster virus) and influenza (influenza A virus), among others, also offer a degree of protection against AD (mean 29% over multiple studies) underlines the plausibility that the protective effects are real. We highlight clinical trials that are planned or underway and discuss whether BCG could be replaced by key components of the mycobacterial cell wall such as muramyl dipeptide. We conclude that BCG and similar agents merit far wider consideration as prophylactic agents against dementia.

Ongoing trials of BCG vax for AD:

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#36

I’m not sure how generalizable studies done in older adults are to younger ones, I don’t think it is necessary to have studies done in young adults to generalize to them. Else you’d end up not taking many drugs like statins. But either way, Shingrix has been tested a bit in immunocomprimised >18 years old.

Pneumococcal vaccine is given to infants.

I don’t know, it’s a 100 year old vaccine, I like newer ones. I’ll have to read up on it, but I am positive in general. I don’t think I’ve gotten it at all as it doesn’t seem that commonly used only for people who will travel to or live in high risk areas it seems.

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#37

I got the HPV vax last month. Second dose in ~ 6 months. I’ll get the pneumococcal vaccine later this year. I’m glad I did based on these really recent papers:

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#38

Are you looking into herpes zoster (shingles) vaccine, as well?
I also realized the other day I haven’t gotten the pertussis vaccine, was born before it became a thing, so I will look into getting that.

Governments don’t seem to be campaigning for boosters at all, I wonder if it’s because of vaccine skeptics and it could harm childhood vaccination programs. Neither do they even tell people like me I have missed vaccines.

Will use this table etc for booster also…

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#39

In the UK, it seems that only people over 65 (and people over 50 with HIV, blood cancer, transplant or severely weakened immune system) can get it. There might be other ways, but I won’t fight the system for that. At least for now :slight_smile: (for the context: I’m 31yo)

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#40

I take 500mg valacyclovir prophylactically every day as part of my ‘stack’

#41

You can get it privately at the same places that do holiday vaccines (e.g. yellow fever)

#42

Most do not offer it:

The only one I found offering it says: “Safe and efficacious vaccines are accessible through private channels for individuals aged 50 and above, as they are not covered by the NHS immunization program.” Shingles Vaccination | London Travel Clinic

Were you able to get it somewhere else?

Also, I’m just curious: Is there any country where the shingles vaccine is recommended to travel?