#121

Be nice to see if this is true in humans.

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#122

This case report was found. Doesn’t prove anything of course.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S277257232300198X

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#123

Yikes. Thank you for that. I take a morning drink of 2g taurine, a teaspoon of cranberry powder and a teaspoon of inulin all dissolved in two cups of green tea. I’ve been doing this for about a year.

This report puts me off the inulin. Since I take in a ton of fiber anyway, inulin not worth the risk, however big or small.

There was a study coming out of Stanford showing that people have different reactions to fiber types. For example is some inulin caused inflammation, while in others it was beneficial.

The point being, you don’t know how your gut will react.

With this new report, to me it’s not worth the risk, so I’m dropping inulin. YMMV.

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#124

This is concerning as Pendulum uses inulin in its Akkermansia.

@约瑟夫_拉维尔 have you heard anything about this?

This study seems to say: Inulin may be good or bad for you.

Colorectal cancer and inulin supplementation: the good, the bad, and the unhelpful - PMC.

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#125

@KarlT No, but I can’t imagine pendulum has much inulin in a capsule. It’s there as food for the bugs. Let me know if I should worrry about it.

#126

Yes, cr is fine for young yo middle aged adults but for us boomers we can’t afford it w/o paying a heavy price. Not a great deal becoming more & more frail when nature is already doing it to us.

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#127

Pendulum has 200 mg inulin per capsule. The case report mentioned earlier had a dose of 4 grams per day. I’m not worried about it for now and I did email Pendulum.

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#128

Good question, challenge and reading! My frustration with my blind faith taking rapa (and about 1/2 of my nutricals) I feel no different. Least the benefit is stay the same which means I feel no different. This is the problem with what is the “best”. Depends on what measure? Agreed that staying the same forever (you never die) would be ideal.

Really good sleep was under mentioned.

Really effective exercise. (MED minimum effective dose) is in play. Can be less then one thinks if you include vibration plates and simple body weight movements.

What “measure” can mean long term or short term. In the short term, best protocols I wouild have to offer my recent opinion of peptides. There’s a BIG universe of peptides for every organ and most issues. I put use of peptides into a catagory of addressing near term issues. Rapa is (to me) is to keep you the same. Peptides reduce or eliminate negatives. I think they go together.

This is a good over view of the universe of peptides.

Good luck, to all, curt

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#129

I don’t find this study very convincing and it was done in mice and some human cells. I know of no evidence that inulin is cancer causing in humans. I take it to promote the production of C15:0 in the microbiome. Thanks for the information.

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#130

Thanks for this case study. There are many correlations possible for various diseases but people seem to get these diseases pretty much at random. I also take psyllium and there are probably negative correlations with it too.

#131

It is possible, that whether fiber is colon cancer preventative, or causative, might be down to two factors: does it come bound in a food matrix, like vegetables or whole grain, or does it come in the form f a purified supplement. And is it soluble fermentable or insoluble.

Here is a review that touches on that:

Quote:

“These results may mean that purified fibers alone do not inhibit tumor development, whereas it is likely that some other factors present in vegetables are antineoplastic. Experiments in laboratory animals, using chemical induction of large bowel cancer, have in general shown a protective effect with supplements of poorly fermentable fibers such as wheat bran or cellulose. In contrast, a number of fermentable fiber supplements including pectin, corn bran, oat bran, undegraded carageenan, agar, psyllium, guar gum, and alfalfa have been shown to enhance tumor development. Possible mechanisms by which fibers may inhibit colon tumorigenesis include dilution and adsorption of any carcinogens and/or promoters contained within the intestinal lumen, the modulation of colonic microbial metabolic activity, and biological modification of intestinal epithelial cells. Dietary fibers not only bind carcinogens, bile acids, and other potential toxins but also essential nutrients, such as minerals, which can inhibit the carcinogenic process. Fermentation of fibers within the large bowel results in the production of short chain fatty acids, which in vivo stimulate cell proliferation, while butyrate appears to be antineoplastic in vitro. Evidence suggests that if dietary fibers stimulate cell proliferation during the stage of initiation, then this may lead to tumor enhancement. Fermentation also lowers luminal pH, which in turn modifies colonic microbial metabolic acidity, and is associated with increased epithelial cell proliferation and colon carcinogenesis.”

#132

At the same time, fiber and the health impact of gut microbiome, is a highly controversial and evolving space.

For example, the review I linked to above, classes psyllium as fermentable. Now, I have been consuming psyllium for 25 years, in quite large quantities - five days a week, one tablespoon of psyillium husk powder. I’ve had two colonoscopies, first one found and removed a small 2mm polyp, the second one I had just last year at age 65, found zero polyps. Of course psyllium might still do me in with CC, but given the track record, I’ll take my chances.

However, over the years I’ve read all sorts of things about psyllium, and a lot of it was contradictory. Sometimes it’s classified as nonfrementable. Sometimes it is claimed that it ferments slowly at a low rate all along the colon. And various claims inbetween.

So while the review above says fermentable fiber LIKE PSYLLIUM might cause cancer, there is hardly universal agreement that psyillium is in fact fermentable:

Psyllium is a natural nonfermented gel-forming fiber that is effective for weight loss: A comprehensive review and meta-analysis - PubMed.

Fermentable:

Quote:

" Intervention: Participants’ diets were supplemented with either a placebo (10 g of lactulose, a nonabsorbable sugar), psyllium (a fermentable fiber), or methylcellulose (a nonfermentable fiber)."

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#133

I use chia seeds in the morning, do you know how they are classified?

#134

The fiber component of chia seeds is classified as soluble fermentable.

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#135

The only thing I’ve seen references to with chia seeds is a theoretical increased risk of prostate cancer because it’s high in ALA. but I don’t remember seeing anything negative about colon cancer, but I haven’t searched much either.

Chia seeds are also high in insoluble fiber.

#136

https://www.gastrojournal.org/article/S0016-5085(23)05139-9/fulltext

” We also identified a positive correlation between inulin dosage and colorectal tumorigenesis. Moreover, transplanting stools from mice fed with high-inulin diet increased colonic cell proliferation and oncogene expressions in germ-free mice.”

Conclusion

”High-dose soluble but not insoluble fiber potentiates colorectal tumorigenesis in a dose-dependent manner by dysregulating gut microbiota and metabolites in mice.”

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#137

Paper from 1986, by a single author (him), published in Proceedings of the Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine (proceedings are sometimes not even peer-reviewed), published by a potentially predatory publisher (Frontiers), in a low impact factor journal ( Experimental Biology and Medicine (Society for Experimental Biology and Medicine journal) - Wikipedia ).

Do we have more recent and better evidence? (I sometimes take psyllium so I’m interested :slight_smile: ).

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#138

As Joe Jackson, the musician, sang on Night And Day ‘everything gives you cancer’ :grinning:

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#139

I think there is the benefit of speedy bowel motility from fibre. Dont want toxins hanging around in the bowel as in constipation.

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#140

If you are worried about constipation, you can take magnesium citrate. You get your magnesium and your citrate and as a bonus, you will be pooping 2-3 times daily. :wink:

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