Agetron
#241
Hmmmm… maybe you are right.
Guess I can do taurine in my 2nd coffee at work… and alternate Glycine/Collagen with AAKG in my wake up coffee at home. Always ready to adapt to new information. I suspect that my heavy steak diet helps in taurine too.
Just saw this in the news.
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Actually that’s what I’m doing now. Collagen and Glycine in my wake up coffee and then 8 g of taurine 3-5 hours later in my second round of coffee. Then some added glycine before bed.
That’s about 20g of glycine. I wonder if that’s too much?
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That’s also similar to what I am doing and the path I am likely to be on: 6g of glycine and15g collagen in two cups of coffee in the morning (with two teaspoons of unsweetened cocoa for LDL) with other supplements including 100mg NACET (which is supposedly equivalent to 1-2g of NACbut I probably should double this), 1000mg citrus bergamot (to try to lower LDL), 12mg astraxanthin, and 5,000 IU of vitamin D every other day (although Huberman is making me think I might be better off waiting 90 minutes after I wake to drink the coffee). I generally eat only between 5-9pm and eat a lot of protein (last night was salmon and chicken) so probably loads of amino acids (albeit not for signaling?). I have 2kg of creatine waiting to be used (accidental double order; don’t ask) and 1kg of beta-alanine (for carnosine), and waiting on taurine — I’m not sure how to work these into my schedule: creatine and beta-alanine in the middle of the day and taurine at night? Mixed in straight water? Weak tea (caffeine after noon makes me sleepless)?
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According to a livestock industry trade publication, “A 3-oz. beef steak would provide 55 mg taurine”
https://www.beefmagazine.com/policy/beef-has-a-great-story-on-the-amino-acid-taurine
The richest dietary sources are seafood, but even eating haddock all day long you’re not going to get 6 g of T.
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I appreciate your point and you are of course correct, but just as an aside, no carnivore is going to eat a 3oz steak: they’re eating 18oz steaks. That’s at least what I’m doing, and I’m a “delicate” carnivore eater. (Your point at 6x still stands correct)
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You simply can’t get enough taurine through a normal diet. You get some, but not enough to provide an optimal benefit like you could when you were young.
Therein lies the problem. Why does our body utilize so much less as we age?
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The “massive” lifespan extension in mice was in a flawed study with very short-liven controls. The GlyNac treated mice lived as long as regular mice, but for some reason the controls died very young. This doesn’t mean that GlyNac isn’t effective, just that this study doesn’t persuasively show it.
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The ITP did show that Glycine by itself dis increase lifespan in a statistically significant way but by a small extent. I hope they trial GLYNAC so that we can have a more definite answer.
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Had been taking 3g of taurine once per day for the last few months, with no noticable side effects (noticed nothing at all actually). Am increasing it to 6g per day now, because why not? It’s cheap and doesn’t seem to be much downside. Will do 3g in morning and 3g at night.
Two things that I have subjectively noticed: one or two grams taken with coffee in the morning mellows the effect of coffee. I can drink a lot of coffee and not get that wired feeling.
Also, taken in the evening after dinner seems to reduce the time it takes to fall asleep.
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I take all 6 g taurine with coffee in the late morning. I take 11 g of collagen and 6 g of glycine with my 6 am coffee. So far, I am liking the results. I still get my coffee energy but @desertshores you are right it feels less ‘wired’ and more ‘energized’.
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Curious
#252
in the GLYNAC study they used C57BL 6 mice strain and in ITP they use, as far as I have read “genetically heterogeneous male and female mice”.
“The median lifespan of C57BL/6 mice range from 27 – 29 months, with the maximum being around 36 months.”
I have not found references to what lifespan one can expext from the mice in the ITP. Can someone elaborate on the expected lifespan of the mice used in the ITP.
Dr. Miller at the ITP has a very poor opinion about Black 6 mice. They are not genetically diverse enough to give good results. This is why the ITP doesn’t use them.
Curious
#254
I found this regarding mice used in the ITP.
"As part of a 3-institution project funded by the National Institute of Aging, we are testing simple chemical interventions administered through food to determine if they retard aging and increase life span in mice. We consider an intervention successful if it increases insulin sensitivity and reduces chronic inflammation and susceptibility to oxidative damage, all of which are well-known indicators of retarded aging. We will test the most successful interventions in combinations at all centers.
Mice in the study are the 4-strain cross UM-HET3 (HET3) mice, the first generation offspring of CByB6F1/J and C3D2F1/J parents, first used by Miller et al. (1999) to study life spans. Thus, the tested populations are reproducible and represent great genetic diversity, helping to assure that results are not due to the responsiveness of a single genotype but more broadly represent laboratory mice in general. We are including a group of diet restricted HET-3 mice as positive controls because diet restriction is the “gold standard” for treatments that retard aging and increase life span."
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Yes, they use the HET-3 mice at the ITP.
Ulf
#256
What could the optimum level of taurine serum concentration be estimated at? I started with a surprisingly high level of 141 umol/L. This corresponds to a 20-year old in the graph in the diagram on humans on page 2 in the article on Taurine as driver of againg linked below, although I am a multiple of that age.
I just got the result of my second test showing 186 umol/L, taken three weeks ago after I had taken 3 g daily of Taurine for a few weeks. I should be above 200 now, approaching the 225 of the newborn. The maximum of anybody in that graph is ca 300. FWIW, the reference range given by the testing company is 91 - 205 in a fasted state as I was (96 - 250 non-fasted).
I will shortly take a third test. In the meantime, I have reduced to 1.5 g, and am debating whether to stop entirely until I get the results. I don’t want to risk being too high, if that is possible. You are supposed to be able to take 3 g daily indefinitely, but no serum levels of Taurine have been given and my 141 before supplementation (possibly a few days after starting) makes me an outlier.
I asked the question of optimal serum to Dr Vijay Yadav, the lead author of the study. His answer:
"At the present time we do not know the reference range of taurine in different ethnicities so it is difficult to assess the levels. They also vary highly based on the methodologies of measurements. We are currently investigating these aspects and hope to have the healthy range for different age groups in a few years from now.
Best regards
Vijay"
Link to the article
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/371444398_Taurine_deficiency_as_a_driver_of_aging
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Bicep
#257
Where did you get it tested and do you remember the cost?
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Ulf
#259
Bicep:
Being from Sweden, I tested at gettested.se which is a Swedish company, with the blood samples mailed to their lab in Sweden.
It cost about 250 dollars, for an analysis of about 25 amino acids. It was useful getting all these tested, since I learned about a few that were in the low range, including beta-alanine. Sharing the same transporter with taurine, my taurine intake had downed b-a quite low,so I need to supplement that. I notice some on the forum are supplementing that for reducing AGEs, via carnisine.
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Do not use LLMs for math calculations. They are advanced word prediction engines. Based on their training data, they “token” by “token” add the most likely next “token” to the current response, then reevaluate and repeat until cutoff (as far as I’m aware).
BSA (mouse) = 10 * (25^0.6667) ≈ 76.35
1,698.486
BSA (human) = 37 * (70000^0.6667) ≈ 1861.71
62,844.0049
(1861.71 / 76.35) * 1 gram ≈ 24.4 grams"
This was approximately correct by luck (of course its answers are better than random chance but still unlikely for math to be correct)
Using gpt4 in this situation (I find 3.5 too unreliable for anything serious) you might ask about how dose conversions are done but you have to continue the work somewhere else after it teaches you the process.
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