#563

Yes I am glad I used RU-58841 over topical finasteride etc… I didn’t have any side effects and I continously measured my DHT and other hormones to make sure of that. It does not go systemic as opposed to the others. Anyways, the Kintor controversy is allegedly due to the cost of continuing the studies and production where there were cheaper alternatives that other people would have preferred.
I prefer to take my chances with a topical non-steroidal anti androgen where the chances of going systemic is almost 0, than taking oral finasteride. Exactly right.

Side effects are different in everyone. If I was having ED and anhedonia side effects why the hell would I wait months for it to go away? Doesn’t make sense. In every other case, you would discontinue the drug.

No you don’t have infinite donor hair but most people have enough for about 2-3 transplants. The rare chance that donor hair is effected by DHT is only the case is retrograde alopecia.
And even then chest hair etc… can be used for the vertex.

1 Like
#564

My situation is different in that I expected to go bald because of my father and paternal grandfather. Hence although my balding is reversing very slowly I am more interested in hair growth as a visible symptom of mitochondrial quality and senescence that its cosmetic value.

2 Likes
#565

Based on what studies are you making that claim? People on the internet claimed it affected their heart.

Anyways, the Kintor controversy is allegedly due to the cost of continuing the studies and production where there were cheaper alternatives that other people would have preferred.

We don’t know that for sure and that certainly didn’t stop them from starting a phase 3 trial for pyrilutamide.

I prefer to take my chances with a topical non-steroidal anti androgen where the chances of going systemic is almost 0

How do you calculate that risk?

why the hell would I wait months for it to go away? Doesn’t make sense. In every other case, you would discontinue the drug.

Because in many cases your body can get used to a medication and adapt.

And even then chest hair etc… can be used for the vertex.

Which looks completely ridiculous.

1 Like
#566

I tested it with bloodwork every 3 weeks. I know it didn’t go systemic as a fact because I was checking. It is not some claim.

People bought RU-58841 from shady sources that aren’t lab tested to save money, which we don’t even know what was in there. There is also the problem with the application, where people apply it before they go to sleep and then when they are sleeping the residue gets on the pillow and they rub their face into it and it gets absorbed through the nasal mucosa. In the beginning, I was applying it at night before I slept but very quickly I felt uncomfortable (some sort of possible tacchycardia). It was probably because the residue on the pillow went into my nasal mucosa. Then I started , applying the RU lets say at 2PM and washing it off at 6PM . That seemed to do the trick with no side effects.

A lot of the side effects of these experimental things can be attributed to operator error and quality sourcing.

To your other point, chest hair adapts to the native hair follicles over time, changing texture and shape. I’m not saying it will look normal if you use it in the hairline area. But if you use it on the crown mixed with some regular donors I doubt people will see it.

2 Likes
#567

You did not test whether RU went systemic. All you did was check for changes in serum testosterone and DHT which is kinda unreliable. What if RU accumulated in tissue such as your heart?

People bought RU-58841 from shady sources that aren’t lab tested to save money, which we don’t even know what was in there.

How do you know that your RU was legit?

There is also the problem with the application, where people apply it before they go to sleep and then when they are sleeping the residue gets on the pillow and they rub their face into it and it gets absorbed through the nasal mucosa.

That is speculation. I don’t see why RU couldn’t go systemic even if only used topically.

#568

I ordered from Chemyo where they lab test every batch for purity. Although, I am trusting them, they seem to be reliable as well Anagen Inc. People in forums seemed to have lab tested them to confirm as well.

It could have accumulated in my heart tissue, I will never know. Is there a way even to check that?

#569

Probably not because RU never passed a safety clinical trial.
The point I wanted to make regarding RU is that you can’t say it’s a safe drug while claiming we don’t have enough data about fin. Personally I believe either works and there are people like Derek from MoreDatesMorePlates who successfully use both a 5ar inhibitor and RU without an issue.

1 Like
#570

Can you quote a source for this?

1 Like
#571

I dont know why he is saying that as if it’s a good thing that they are lean. People born with 5ar deficiency are obviously unable to go through sexual development and are often assigned female at birth due to the lack of external genetalia. And giving people in their early 20s 5ar inhibitors, when they haven’t fully developed yet , is obviously a problem for exactly this reason.

@Ryan_McCarter Read for yourselves the problems of 5AR deficiency. Who cares about if they are leaner. They are impotent and can’t reproduce, have a micropenis if they’re lucky, have high piched voice, no body or facial hair, and to be confused as female from birth , jesus christ.

"Many people with 5-alpha reductase deficiency are assigned female at birth based on their external genitalia. In other cases, affected infants are assigned male at birth based on their external genitalia, often an unusually small penis (micropenis) and the urethra opening on the underside of the penis (hypospadias). Still other affected infants may be assigned either female or male at birth as their external genitalia do not look clearly male or clearly female.

During puberty, an increase in the levels of male sex hormones leads to the development of some secondary sex characteristics, such as increased muscle mass, deepening of the voice, development of pubic hair, and a growth spurt. The penis and scrotum (the sac of skin that holds the testes) may grow larger. People with 5-alpha reductase deficiency do not develop much facial or body hair. Most affected individuals are unable to have biological children (infertile) without assisted reproduction."

2 Likes
#572

Even if estrogen increases muscle mass in females, Why would you want to increase estrogen in males? Do you not see that as a problem? Testosterone increase muscle mass as well, and optimizes most other functions. No wonder almost every male wants to increase there testosterone and not get biologically castrated through flooding their bodies with estrogen.

The logic here is extremely flawed.

1 Like
#573

So they aren’t sterile but rather have subpar sperm quality. It has been known that very high doses of dutasteride may negatively affect sperm quality so perhaps a total 5ar deficiency may not be ideal. Finasteride at 1mg daily or dutasteride at 0.5mg daily only inhibit 70% and 90% of serum DHT (less in tissue) so that there is still plenty of 5ar activity left.
In any case children and pregnant women shouldn’t be taking 5ar inhibitors but once you reach the age of 18-25, your body has finished developing.

1 Like
#574

Any therapy which raises testosterone will lead to increased aromatase activity. By my understanding, high estrogen is not an issue as long as the testosterone to estrogen ratio is above a certain threshold.

1 Like
#576

I do not see it as a problem as long as it is properly balanced with testosterone. On the contrary, why would it be? My estrogen is high enough to be out of range yet I am quite confident I’m in better shape than about 99.8% of Americans. If you actually knew anything about hormones in general, or estrogen in particular, you would know that in addition to being necessary for some aspects of basic physiology in males, estrogen is also highly cardio and neuroprotective.

1 Like
#578

@Ryan_McCarter you made a daring claim above. Could you provide some sources for this claim? DHT derivates are widely used in bodybuilding community as performance-enhancing substances to gain lean mass and loose fat…

On the other hand finasteride can induce gynecomastia even with optimal estradiol serum levels.

#579

You source “studies” with your aggressive claims but have yet to cite one. Your comments should be ignored.

It is a fact , that increased levels of estrogen can cause symptoms such as infertility, erectile dysfunction, and depression in men. Men look to optimize testosterone not their estrogen. Unless you are looking to be transgender and undergo feminizing hormone therapy, why would you want increased estrogen? The range of side effects from increased side effects are again terrible. Well you can read about that yourself in your “studies”.

#580

5ar inhibitors are not the same as outright taking estrogen. While it’s true that due to higher testosterone and less 5ar activity, more aromatase occurs, this is not significant enough to cause issues in the strong majority of men.

#581

Ryan, please keep discussions and commentary focused on the science of the issue, and not on any personal attacks. We have a saying here, go hard on the science, but easy on the people.

I know it gets frustrating when others don’t agree or don’t engage with with evidence that you find sufficient or sufficient, etc. But please take a break if you feel like you may veer into personal criticism or ad hominem attacks.

Its fine to disagree with people, but we really want to keep the forums civil, and a place for good in-depth discussions and arguments about the science and evidence around given longevity therapeutics or treatments.

11 Likes
#582

That might be true, but I was once told by a doctor that low levels of estrogen in males is bad. I think i was at the lower end of the range like 25 years ago (don’t remember particulars) but I recall him saying he would have liked it to be a bit higher. From what I know about certain health markers, it appears in majority of them there is a range, and anything higher or lower may not be ideal. As I recall my testo was a bit low at that time also I think 440 at 34 years old. (btw, I’ll be first to admit, I’m not the most literate guy on subjects, but wanted to note my personal experience)

Normal Estrogen Levels for Males: Optimizing Hormonal Health - TestoFuel Blog

3 Likes
#583

If tacrolimus increases skin pigmentation, will it also increase hair pigmentation or not?

Pigmentation after using topical tacrolimus to treat lichen sclerosus: Possible role of stem cell factor

Topical tacrolimus 0.1% (Protopic, Fujisawa Pharmaceuticals) was first applied twice daily (using approximately 10 g monthly). After 3 months of therapy, she noted brownish pigmentation localized at the site of tacrolimus application (Fig 1, B ). A skin biopsy specimen showed increased epidermal pigmentation and melanocyte proliferation of hyperpigmented skin compared with previous hypopigmented and normal skin

https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(06)00563-9/fulltext

2 Likes
#584

Venton et al. described the loss of pigmentation of the hair in four patients receiving TPN without selenium supplementation. The serum and hair selenium levels were 38 ± 11 ng/mL and 0.34 ± 0.13 μg/g, respectively. Hair started to re-pigment after 6–12 months of therapy with intravenous selenium. Similar findings, including alopecia with pseudoalbinism, were found in 6 infants receiving nutritional support. In these six infants, after starting daily selenium therapy (5 μg/kg/day), selenium serum levels returned to the normal range of 5–15 μg/dL, and alopecia and pseudoalbinism improved

3 Likes