#1708

Coronary CT calcium evaluation/ score better than genetics in assessing cardiac risk.

3 Likes
#1709

Has anyone done or looked into Peter Thiel backed Cleerly Health type of cardiovascular imaging

Seems to be even better than normal CT/CAC as it can also see soft plaque/ongoing calcification and not just past processes that had become solidified plaque.

#1710

Currently, conventional measures of risk-factor levels, such as blood pressure and cholesterol, are used by doctors to determine a personā€™s likelihood of developing coronary heart disease or blockages of the arteries in the heart. But some people may experience a heart attack, or related heart problem, without one of those conventional factors picking it up.

Because your thresholds of ldl cholesterol for treatment is too high. Lower LDL needs to be treated earlier.

Completely clueless doctors, itā€™s not a meme, itā€™s reality & parody.

#1711

I watched Dr. Aseem Malhotra on Joe Rogan. Are you a doctor? Do you see both sides of this? Have you looked at the studies that the other side sites?

Also I think he mentions in this interview that 11% of oncology studies are repeatable. Science is broken. I think before you reach the level of certitude that you apparently have, you need to do the studies yourself. Pharma wants to sell statins, so they buy the studies necessary. Itā€™s happening.

Also rivasp12 is not a regular mainstream doctor (if there is such a thing). He reads widely and practices what he does. What do you actually do for a living?

As a farmer, sales people come to me and want to sell based on plots. They cheat like crazy. If you donā€™t do your own science you will get it wrong. Not might, will. The system will bury anybody not doing their own work. Also some people canā€™t even do their own work because of bias.

Good luck with your godlike certitude.

2 Likes
#1712

Yes, you are correct.

Repeating myself, posted more than one time.

All should watch and remember;

The pursuit of ignorance

Stuart Firestein

Everyone knows, the point is to understand.

Shamelessly plagiarized from;

Albert Einstein ā€” ā€˜Any fool can know. The point is to understand.ā€™

#1713

In the medical field especially, decisions are based on benefit/ risk analysis. Iā€™m neither pro nor anti statin, it all boils down to risk assessment.
In the low risk individual with a CAC of zero, the 10 year prognosis is extremely good, and the CV mortality risk is very low, so the gain in aggressive management is also very low.
Iā€™ve previously posted a cardiologistā€™s recommendation for interventions based on different levels of CAC scores. This is a very reasonable way to assess your risk and determine the course of action.
I am seeing some impressive lipid lowering results with citrus bergamot at 1000 mg per day. Some additional benefits can be had with pantothene 600 mg per day.
In the high risk person, with high CAC scores, combinations of statins and PCSK9ā€™s are warranted.

My main concerns with statins are the risk for developing diabetes and the cognitive/ memory issues that Iā€™ve seen ( occasionally). There are reports of serious global amnesia episodes and a Mendelian randomization study did find impaired cognition with statins, but not with the PCSK 9 inhibitors.
Under I fully understand whatā€™s going on in the brain with statins, Iā€™m going to try other interventions first, unless the person is high risk for CVD. This is still not settled and Iā€™ll probably change my mind as newer data emerges.

7 Likes
#1714

So your concern is that the studies on LDL canā€™t be repeated? It does, over and over.
Statins are literally dirt cheap because they are generic, and for the aware consumer a much lower dosage than whatā€™s sold is still effective. I am agnostic about statins, but they are inexpensive and very low risk, meaning most people do not get side effects.

#1715

ā€œInterveningā€, if you can call it that, after advanced disease has already developed isnā€™t good, it isnā€™t prevention at least.

#1716

The ideal approach would be to get a CAC at a young age and to begin interventions than if indicated by the score. Of course, most studies reveal the greatest gains come from secondary, not primary, prevention, and thatā€™s because they are the ones at greatest risk.

3 Likes
#1717

Still, you are only treating people who have advanced ASCVD, rather than preventing it. It isnā€™t preventative medicine. It is standard mainstream medicine.

#1718

Yeah, my concierge doctor is a great lipidologist and of course wants me to lower my LDL. Itā€™s around 140. His is high because of genetics and he is now on a statin and pcsk9, and shooting for 0 as near as I can tell. I hope he doesnā€™t drop dead on me, I actually like him as he prescribed Rapa for me and lets me try things without getting too worked up usually.

I am of course uncertain and have been getting by pretty well with Niacin and Garlic, Gotu Kola and pine bark. I will throw in Bergamot and see if it gets even better. I did try statins for awhile, and he got me a months worth of PCSK9ā€™s to try. It never got below 140 doing that either.

My CACā€™s have improved by quite a bit, from three hundred something to two hundred something and he said it has moved to a better place too. I think itā€™s the keto diet and exercise. Iā€™ve never worked this hard and felt so good.

The episode with Gary Taubes on The Drive with Attia talking about the bad scientists and broken science, followed by the pandemic and obviously disastrous science has me checking everything 3 times. Thanks for the help.

3 Likes
#1719

Thatā€™s a very impressive correction of your CAC score.
One of my associates is a Harvard trained internist and he had a remarkable correction of his score using vitamin k2 as MK-4. No results with the 7 form. He did serial testing to see what would have the greatest effect on his score.

4 Likes
#1720

Thatā€™s very interesting. Arr there any studies looking at CAC with mk7 vs mk4?
Im just off the Southwest France where they seem to live forever thanks to mk4 in foie grasā€¦

2 Likes
#1721

The only studies using MK4 that Iā€™m aware of are the Japanese using it to both prevent and treat osteoporosis at 45,000 mcg per day. It works as well as any prescribed drug.

As far as CAC scores, he thought initially that the 7 would be more effective, but it actually did nothing. The 4 was quite significant and it worked over a relatively short period of time.

3 Likes
#1722

So why not use MK4 vs MK7? It seems everyone is touting MK7 instead of MK4.

#1723

Since itā€™s cheap enough, I just take a single capsule that contains vitamin K1 and two forms of vitamin K2, vitamin K2 MK4 (Menatetrenone-4) and vitamin K2 MK7 (Menaquinone-7).

3 Likes
#1724

Really? Can you provide a reference for this? Nothing comes up when I search menaquinone 4 and coronary calcium on PubMed. I personally took MK4 for years back when it was popular, expecting my coronary calcium to decrease, only to be shocked by it actually increasing.

#1725

I did a page on K2 a while ago

Personally I take MK4 every day and MK7 when I donā€™t mind extra energy which can be sleep disruptive. I also take MK9 every day. I donā€™t think it does any harm (MK9).

There are complex relationships between these that I go into on my page.

3 Likes
#1726

No, no actual studies to support our observation. He used a high dose, 45 mgā€™s, and we even observed calcified plaque coming loose off of dental plaque in some patients. It was strictly MK 4.

#1727

How do you feel about ā€œcalcified plaque coming looseā€¦ā€?