Ulf
#266
Thanks! Helps me embark on my peptide journey.
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Ulf
#267
Starting half a dozen peptides now, each with (some) clinical evidence. The most exciting is the thymalin /epithalamin (epitalon) combo. However the amazing clinical results are from a single source the group around the late Khavinson so safest to consider it a quie uncertain potential game changer.
Will not do MOTS-C; not a single trial on humans can be found. Was considering SS-31 with similar claimed benefits instead but the four clinical trials I could find show disappointing results.
Neither the UK nor the Polish supplier has the cream version of GHK-Cu, the one peptide that can be taken topically, so I´m going for the injectable one. .
The UK supplier is almost 50 % lower in price on some of the peptides, and also cheaper than rupharma. Too good to be real? If my peptide journey shows results I can visit the UK for a new round.
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Just so you know a topical GHK-cu will not provide near the benefit of an inject-able.
I make my own topical GHK-cu skin creme and it does provide benefits but not like you would/will get with an inject-able. 2.0% GHK-cu, 1.5% Hyaluronic Acid (ULMW) and 6% Argan oil plus other typical compounds (including several penetrant enhancers) to make it into a nice skin creme.
On MOTS-c, I’ve been using it for about a month, just before workout, 3 to 4 times a week. As you have noted not a lot of clinical evidence but have it so figured I’d use it. But it was a low dose just to see if I had any negative reaction.
There is a big difference between Epithalamin and Epithalon.
Epithalamin is a whole organ extract with more than just one thing in it.
Epithalon is a single peptide, supposedly the “active” ingredient in Epithalamin. One important factor due to this is dosing. From what I’ve read the dose would be lower with Epithalon.
I’m going down a similar path as you LoL!
Starting a 1 month cycle of Epithalon 5 days a week (3mg) and MOTS-c in between 2 days at a higher dose (4mg) than I used previously. Mon-E, T-MOTS, W-E, T-M, F-E, S-E, S-E
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With the caveat that I am a novice when it comes to peptides.
I am wondering about your thinking on the dosage of Epithalon.
I have seen several protocols for dosing, but not the one you are using.
From my notes from reading info on several sites, this seems to be the more common dosing. Your dosing seems unusual.
"Option 1: Inject 10 mg once per day for a total of 10 days.
Option 2: Inject 10 mg once every 3 days for a total of 30 days.
It is recommended to run no more than two cycles per year, with at least a 4-month gap between cycles."
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Ulf
#270
I thought so too, that dosage of epitalon is a fraction of that of epithalamin. However, the epithalamin dose in the Khavinson studies was 10 mg per day and the vials named epit(h)alon at rupharma and the UK and Polish suppliers all each hold 10 mg. Surely they are the same? Confusing…
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Have you come across any studies comparing dosages?
Ulf
#272
No, I recall having seen the assertion of a fraction but now I think this was probably wrong and I don’t remember the context.
The recommended dose of epitalon - the syntetic version of Epithalamin - appears to be the same as the latter, 5 to 10 mg per day.So hopefully they are in effect the same. I am starting 10 mg x 10 days of epitalon, same as the dose for epithalamin in the trials of Khavinson et al,(unless Steve has some strong contrary argument).
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Tim
#273
Prices are good, but only on a few products. For example, the cost for a 50-mg vial of Semax is 52E, an excellent price, while Selank, a similar item, costs 32E for 10mg, which is no bargain. Other popular peptides, such as Epitalon and BPC-157, cost as much as they do in the U.S.
What this site has that sets them apart is a good selection of capsules and creams.
Please update us on your Epitalon journey.
I am starting ot as well, but at a Much lower dose.
Doing 250MCG a day for 10 days, then 10 days off and then 500MCG a day for 10 days and then take a couple months off a replicate later
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@Albina have you and your husband finished the actovegin vials you purchased? Has the progress that has been made appear to be holding?
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Since Epithalon is not the same thing as Epithalimin, the dose is different.
Epithalamin (sometimes spelled “epithalamine”) is a crude polypeptide extract of bovine pineal glands while epithalon (also spelled “epitalon”) is a tetrapeptide isolate (Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly) from epithalamin that can also be made synthetically.
Ulf
#277
I can’t find any study comparing dosage of Epithalon to Epithalamin. Based on the following, my amateur estimate is to take the same dose of the former as in the 15-year study on Epithalamin, i.e. 10 mg daily x 10 days.
The closest I came to a comparison is
“In human clinical studies, epitalon and epithalamin both significantly increased telomere lengths in the blood cells of patients of ages 60-65 and 75-80, and their efficacy was comparable to one another.” This is taken from articles by Khavinson perhaps more can be found reading them.
- Khavinson, Vladimir (2015-07-03). “Peptides, Genome, Aging”. khavinson.info. Prof. Vladimir Khavinson. p. 79. Archived from the original on 2018-01-09. Retrieved 2018-01-08.
- **[(18]](
From perplexity.ai
"Unfortunately, there is no direct equivalence established between the dosages of Epitalon and Epithalamin. The search results do not provide specific information about how many milligrams of Epitalon would correspond to a 10 mg dose of Epithalamin. This is likely because these two peptides, while related, have different structures and mechanisms of action.Epitalon is a synthetic tetrapeptide designed to mimic some of the effects of Epithalamin, which is a natural polypeptide derived from the pineal gland. Due to their structural differences, it’s not possible to establish a simple milligram-to-milligram equivalence.Typical dosages for these peptides are generally reported as follows:
- Epitalon: Usually administered in doses of 5 to 10 mg per day, often in cycles.
- Epithalamin: In research settings, it has been used at doses of about 10 mg per vial, with protocols varying but sometimes involving 10 mg daily for 10 days.
It’s important to note that the dosages and administration protocols for both peptides can vary depending on the specific research or clinical context. Without direct comparative studies, it’s not possible to determine an exact equivalence between Epitalon and Epithalamin doses"
From Jay Campbell’s book
Epitalon Recommended Dosage
The Khavinson Protocol, according to
Ben Greenfield: 10 mg of Epitalon
injected subcutaneously three times a
week for three weeks straight, done once
a year.
An alternative Russian Protocol,
according to Dr. William Seeds in his
book Peptide Protocols, Volume 179:
10 mg of Epitalon injected
intramuscularly every day for 10 days,
done once every year for a total of two
years. (My comment: this is what I understand as the basic Khavinson ptotocol)
The Ukrainian Protocol, according to
the International Peptide Society: 10 mg
of Epitalon injected intramuscularly every
THIRD day until you reach 50 mg total,
done once every six months for a total of
three years.
Dr. Heather Smith-Fernandez’s
protocol: 1 mg of Epitalon injected
subcutaneously every night.
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Well, the protocols people are using are all over the place.
I asked a couple of medical-leaning AI sites about dosing safety.
“Certain peptides, such as insulin, GLP-1 agonists, PTH analogues, vasopressin analogues, growth hormone, and synthetic research peptides, can have severe or potentially life-threatening consequences when taken in overdose.”
“Peptides such as BPC-157, TB-500, Epithalon, Selank, and Semax are generally considered to be less dose-sensitive and have a wider therapeutic window. They are typically well-tolerated and have a lower risk of causing severe side effects when dosed within a reasonable range.”
Since there are more than a dozen websites that I have found selling Epitalon or Epithalamin for quite some time, I must assume that there have been thousands of self-experimenters taking it in various doses.
I can’t find any anecdotal evidence or alarm bells that any profoundly negative effects have taken place.
Allowing that some percentage of users would opt for higher doses or just because of some screw-ups calculating the dose and have not reported serious side effects, it seems relatively safe.
Based on anecdotal evidence and suggestions from gurus.
I would opt for the 10-day, 10mg plan because it would be convenient and as likely to work as any other plan based on what is known about proper dosing.
In that respect, it is like rapamycin.
4 Likes
Davin8r
#279
Thoughts on this? Peptides come as a lyophilized powder with filler. The “purity” tests (HPCL assay showing 99% purity, etc) are testing ONLY the purity of the peptide portion of the total mix (which is very tiny). It doesn’t tell you anything about what else is in there. Those currently using peptides, does this concern you?
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@Ulf are you using Profound-Health.com in the UK or someone else? Which products are you using? Thx
Ulf
#282
Now for the administration. Epithalamin was injected intramuscularly in the Khavinson trials. For Epitalon, protocols are either subcutaneously or IM with both using 2 ml sterile water. That is close to the maximum that can be injected subq in the belly, the organ which can take the most. I an leaning towards IM, since the trials used that and I am relatively thin with risk of tissue damage or irritation with such a large volume subq for so many days.
Thymalin was also intramuscular in the trials, and the protocols recommend IM (even though the sterile water may be less at 1-2 ml). 10mg x 10 days.
So for myself I see no alternative to buttoning up those beautiful glutes to expose the right quadrant, regretfully I will abstain from showing it publicly as Bryan Johnson LoL
The Khavinson trial on T+E was 10mgx10 days simultaneously annually for six years. There are protocols suggesting every 6 months.
2003-khavinson_morozov1.pdf
2 Likes
Ulf
#283
Rupharma with shipping from EU and biolabshop.eu in Poland.
I am a novice, starting with Thymalin+Epitalon, followed by testing GHK-Cu, Semax, BP-157, Cerebrolysin one at a time.
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I prepare a weeks worth of “pins” on Sunday for the 2 of us. I mark the stems for what they contain.
- No mark = morning BPC+TB - 1 every day, and an extra if I’ve got a pain in my shoulder
- 1 stripe = bedtime IPC+CJC - 1x 5 nights a week
- M = MOTS-c - 1 before a workout + 2 per week between Epithalon
- E = Epithalon - 5 per week (first time so low dose)
- G = Gonadorelin - 4 per week, first thing upon waking, was not done yet.
The pain in my shoulder thing was a torn infraspinatus that happened 11 years ago and used to flair up with certain work motions. That has really been improved such that I rarely experience that pain the last 4 months.
When I add something new, I check my BP every day for a week or so, I already monitor RHR and HRV plus weight every day.
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There is hardly any information on Epithalon, the “pure” peptide as opposed to Epithlamine the bovine pineal gland extract.
Epithalon is promoted as being the “active” ingredient in Epithalamin.
When you take Epithalamin, you are getting a wide variety of compounds in one dose. From a cows organ. How much of that is Epithalon? Theoretically it would be lower in the bovine extract? unless otherwise indicated on the monograph.
If 10mg of Epithalamin contains XXmg of Epithalon, how much are you actually getting from the extract?
When you use pure Epithalon peptide you only get 1 thing, Epithalon, none of the “extra” compounds in Epithalamin.
My though is that a lower dose of Epithalon, the pure peptide, would/should/maybe, be as effective as a large dose of the bovine extract?
Also I almost always start with a lower dose to evaluate my response. Especially with something that has very little human research to refer to.
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