Please update us on your Epitalon journey.
I am starting ot as well, but at a Much lower dose.
Doing 250MCG a day for 10 days, then 10 days off and then 500MCG a day for 10 days and then take a couple months off a replicate later
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@Albina have you and your husband finished the actovegin vials you purchased? Has the progress that has been made appear to be holding?
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Since Epithalon is not the same thing as Epithalimin, the dose is different.
Epithalamin (sometimes spelled “epithalamine”) is a crude polypeptide extract of bovine pineal glands while epithalon (also spelled “epitalon”) is a tetrapeptide isolate (Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly) from epithalamin that can also be made synthetically.
Ulf
#277
I can’t find any study comparing dosage of Epithalon to Epithalamin. Based on the following, my amateur estimate is to take the same dose of the former as in the 15-year study on Epithalamin, i.e. 10 mg daily x 10 days.
The closest I came to a comparison is
“In human clinical studies, epitalon and epithalamin both significantly increased telomere lengths in the blood cells of patients of ages 60-65 and 75-80, and their efficacy was comparable to one another.” This is taken from articles by Khavinson perhaps more can be found reading them.
- Khavinson, Vladimir (2015-07-03). “Peptides, Genome, Aging”. khavinson.info. Prof. Vladimir Khavinson. p. 79. Archived from the original on 2018-01-09. Retrieved 2018-01-08.
- **[(18]](
From perplexity.ai
"Unfortunately, there is no direct equivalence established between the dosages of Epitalon and Epithalamin. The search results do not provide specific information about how many milligrams of Epitalon would correspond to a 10 mg dose of Epithalamin. This is likely because these two peptides, while related, have different structures and mechanisms of action.Epitalon is a synthetic tetrapeptide designed to mimic some of the effects of Epithalamin, which is a natural polypeptide derived from the pineal gland. Due to their structural differences, it’s not possible to establish a simple milligram-to-milligram equivalence.Typical dosages for these peptides are generally reported as follows:
- Epitalon: Usually administered in doses of 5 to 10 mg per day, often in cycles.
- Epithalamin: In research settings, it has been used at doses of about 10 mg per vial, with protocols varying but sometimes involving 10 mg daily for 10 days.
It’s important to note that the dosages and administration protocols for both peptides can vary depending on the specific research or clinical context. Without direct comparative studies, it’s not possible to determine an exact equivalence between Epitalon and Epithalamin doses"
From Jay Campbell’s book
Epitalon Recommended Dosage
The Khavinson Protocol, according to
Ben Greenfield: 10 mg of Epitalon
injected subcutaneously three times a
week for three weeks straight, done once
a year.
An alternative Russian Protocol,
according to Dr. William Seeds in his
book Peptide Protocols, Volume 179:
10 mg of Epitalon injected
intramuscularly every day for 10 days,
done once every year for a total of two
years. (My comment: this is what I understand as the basic Khavinson ptotocol)
The Ukrainian Protocol, according to
the International Peptide Society: 10 mg
of Epitalon injected intramuscularly every
THIRD day until you reach 50 mg total,
done once every six months for a total of
three years.
Dr. Heather Smith-Fernandez’s
protocol: 1 mg of Epitalon injected
subcutaneously every night.
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Well, the protocols people are using are all over the place.
I asked a couple of medical-leaning AI sites about dosing safety.
“Certain peptides, such as insulin, GLP-1 agonists, PTH analogues, vasopressin analogues, growth hormone, and synthetic research peptides, can have severe or potentially life-threatening consequences when taken in overdose.”
“Peptides such as BPC-157, TB-500, Epithalon, Selank, and Semax are generally considered to be less dose-sensitive and have a wider therapeutic window. They are typically well-tolerated and have a lower risk of causing severe side effects when dosed within a reasonable range.”
Since there are more than a dozen websites that I have found selling Epitalon or Epithalamin for quite some time, I must assume that there have been thousands of self-experimenters taking it in various doses.
I can’t find any anecdotal evidence or alarm bells that any profoundly negative effects have taken place.
Allowing that some percentage of users would opt for higher doses or just because of some screw-ups calculating the dose and have not reported serious side effects, it seems relatively safe.
Based on anecdotal evidence and suggestions from gurus.
I would opt for the 10-day, 10mg plan because it would be convenient and as likely to work as any other plan based on what is known about proper dosing.
In that respect, it is like rapamycin.
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Davin8r
#279
Thoughts on this? Peptides come as a lyophilized powder with filler. The “purity” tests (HPCL assay showing 99% purity, etc) are testing ONLY the purity of the peptide portion of the total mix (which is very tiny). It doesn’t tell you anything about what else is in there. Those currently using peptides, does this concern you?
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@Ulf are you using Profound-Health.com in the UK or someone else? Which products are you using? Thx
Ulf
#282
Now for the administration. Epithalamin was injected intramuscularly in the Khavinson trials. For Epitalon, protocols are either subcutaneously or IM with both using 2 ml sterile water. That is close to the maximum that can be injected subq in the belly, the organ which can take the most. I an leaning towards IM, since the trials used that and I am relatively thin with risk of tissue damage or irritation with such a large volume subq for so many days.
Thymalin was also intramuscular in the trials, and the protocols recommend IM (even though the sterile water may be less at 1-2 ml). 10mg x 10 days.
So for myself I see no alternative to buttoning up those beautiful glutes to expose the right quadrant, regretfully I will abstain from showing it publicly as Bryan Johnson LoL
The Khavinson trial on T+E was 10mgx10 days simultaneously annually for six years. There are protocols suggesting every 6 months.
2003-khavinson_morozov1.pdf
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Ulf
#283
Rupharma with shipping from EU and biolabshop.eu in Poland.
I am a novice, starting with Thymalin+Epitalon, followed by testing GHK-Cu, Semax, BP-157, Cerebrolysin one at a time.
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I prepare a weeks worth of “pins” on Sunday for the 2 of us. I mark the stems for what they contain.
- No mark = morning BPC+TB - 1 every day, and an extra if I’ve got a pain in my shoulder
- 1 stripe = bedtime IPC+CJC - 1x 5 nights a week
- M = MOTS-c - 1 before a workout + 2 per week between Epithalon
- E = Epithalon - 5 per week (first time so low dose)
- G = Gonadorelin - 4 per week, first thing upon waking, was not done yet.
The pain in my shoulder thing was a torn infraspinatus that happened 11 years ago and used to flair up with certain work motions. That has really been improved such that I rarely experience that pain the last 4 months.
When I add something new, I check my BP every day for a week or so, I already monitor RHR and HRV plus weight every day.
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There is hardly any information on Epithalon, the “pure” peptide as opposed to Epithlamine the bovine pineal gland extract.
Epithalon is promoted as being the “active” ingredient in Epithalamin.
When you take Epithalamin, you are getting a wide variety of compounds in one dose. From a cows organ. How much of that is Epithalon? Theoretically it would be lower in the bovine extract? unless otherwise indicated on the monograph.
If 10mg of Epithalamin contains XXmg of Epithalon, how much are you actually getting from the extract?
When you use pure Epithalon peptide you only get 1 thing, Epithalon, none of the “extra” compounds in Epithalamin.
My though is that a lower dose of Epithalon, the pure peptide, would/should/maybe, be as effective as a large dose of the bovine extract?
Also I almost always start with a lower dose to evaluate my response. Especially with something that has very little human research to refer to.
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Engadin
#287
Dr. Harold Katcher’s NEEL GSHK-Cu gel available here.
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I bought some shortly after it came out. Horrible stuff, at least to me. I’m scent sensitive and it’s way to heavily scented for me to use, and many reviews indicate the same thing.
While topical GHK-cu is good for the skin, that is about all, as it will not be “systemically” absorbed.
Many peptide vendors do add excipients to their products and it is totally unnecessary. These excipients are NOT part of the peptide mfg process. The most common additive is mannitol, supposedly to “increase” stability. This is not necessary.
I’ve purchased several “samples” from various vendors and it is more common that I expected, the first time I saw it I was shocked. I immediately knew something was up…
I think one of the reasons is to “bulk it up” so the average consumer thinks they are getting what they ordered.
One good example is AOD9604 (I ordered a 2mg vial), which is often sold in smaller amounts, 2mg is not uncommon. As soon as I saw the vial I knew something was up as I weigh this stuff all the time. 2mg is a VERY small amount of powder and I’m guessing most people who have never used a lab grade scale that can weight mcg would never know how small it should be and then complain all over the internet that they got shafted on their order. When I weighed it, it was 30mg of powder.
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Sounds a bit like you don’t know how peptides are made. It is a fairly well establish science and the equipment and raw materials are more than well known.
I do get the concern about some of the points you are making. I’ve been very selective on the Chinese companies I work with and to date have had excellent products from them. This is where a significant amount of raw materials for supplements, drugs and many other things we consume daily come from.
If you want to make your own peptides, all you need is a $30k to $60k desktop peptide machine and a few other machines to get into production.
I read Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaws first book Life Extension: A Practical Scientific Approach when it came out (1982) and one of the things that has stuck with me is that they said “in the not to distant future, everyone will have a peptide machine in their garage” at that time these machines were $250k plus.
Making peptides is not rocket science 
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Davin8r
#293
So the peptide manufacturing process is different and far easier than drug synthesis?
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No, but since there no major or even minor alarm bells going off from the use of common peptides such as BPC-157, TB-500, Epithalon, Selank, and Semax,.etc. mentioned in this thread from even some dubious vendors, all of which probably obtain their peptides from a few primary sources even if they say made in the USA.
The only peptide I have tried so far is Semax, which I liked.
I have been scouring forums and literature for the evidence of safety of the aforementioned peptides and so far have not even found a smoking gun
Therefore, I must conclude that they are relatively safe.
These products have been on the market for over a decade and have been used by thousands and there seem to be fewer negative side effects than big-pharma promoted peptides.
If you can furnish any studies that indicate they are unsafe I would like to know.
In the meantime, there is nothing but speculation about the negative effects of using these "research chemicals’
In any case, all we have is anecdotal evidence as to their safety, but there are thousands of anecdotal reports that they are.
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Yes it is. A peptide machine is more like a knitting machine. There are 20 amino acids, they go in cartridges and with a few other reagents it assembles the peptide according to the basic structure that gets programmed into the machine.
And peptides are much more robust than you would expect, the peptide bond is quite strong.
Here is a simple automated peptide machine…
Then you will need to lyophilize the results, freeze dry it into a stable powder.
And a few other tools and you are in the peptide manufacturing business.
At large scale, high throughput, it’s a bit different.
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I’m my own guinea pig, I’m going to try them all
So far 10 different peptides.
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