#62

This topic reminds me of my biggest issue with the supplement and off-label pharm marketing / social media hype: relative effect.

All of these “scientific” studies never give me any sense of how much better Thing A is vs. Thing B. The only logical (but wrong) conclusion from the easily available info is that I should take everything that has some probable benefit.

I try to back away from the precipice by limiting how many things I allow myself to take. This forces me to think critically about priority for me. What are my issues? Have I seen any personal benefit from taking Thing A? Can I get it in food? Can I solve the issue with non drug solutions? Can I solve the issue by stopping something I’m doing now

At present I think all chemicals supplements are a scam with a thread of truth. If something might fit a gap, I’ll investigate.

No C15 pills for me. Not yet anyway.

5 Likes
#63

Really good one today, but long:

It looks like there will be a home test for c15 and she has numbers. Talks about pecarino (sheep cheese), my wife will be very happy to hear about the goat cheese as well. This is her goat cheese time of year, swimming in milk as she often says. It would be fun though very expensive to test the milk for c15. Again I wonder if the bacteria (and which ones) make it for us as well.

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#64

Got some at Costco. Eating nightly. Very strong flavor but I like that.

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#65

The correct spelling is: pecorino

#66

Thanks!

The name pecorino derives from pecora, which means ‘sheep’ in Italian.

I’m learning all kinds of things.

1 Like
#67

It occurs to me that it may be the species or variety of grass that the sheep graze on. Here, smooth brome is the one that wins without help. There it could be something else. I don’t know what study she’s talking about but will be looking.

#68

Below is the paper; for those like me, who prefer the printed word.

Metabolites | Free Full-Text | The Cellular Stability Hypothesis: Evidence of Ferroptosis and Accelerated Aging-Associated Diseases as Newly Identified Nutritional Pentadecanoic Acid (C15:0) Deficiency Syndrome.

The source papers for ferroptosis are footnotes 12, 13 and 14.

The first testament to C15:0’s role in protecting infant health is the presence of C15:0 in human colostrum and milk. C15:0 content in human colostrum varies from 0.04% to 0.58% of total fatty acids, with the lowest concentrations reported in women from Poland and the highest in women in Australia [75]. Even higher C15:0 concentrations, ranging from 0.61% to 0.89%, have been reported in colostrum from women in Slovenia [76]. Relatedly, among a wide variety of animal meat products listed in the United States Department of Agriculture FoodData Central, Australian lamb and Australian grass-fed beef are the top two highest C15:0-containing meats, with 0.47% and 0.36% C15:0, respectively [77]. More studies are needed to better understand how regional and cultural diets influence dietary C15:0 intake and resulting C15:0 concentrations in circulation, as well as in mothers’ colostrum and milk.

Beyond colostrum, C15:0 content in human milk varies from 0.12% to 0.39% of total fatty acids, with the lowest concentrations reported in women from China and highest among women in Australia [78]. Aligned with these ranges, human milk from women in Taiwan had maintained average C15:0 concentrations of around 0.2% throughout 297 days of lactation [79]. These findings are aligned with cultures that drink less animal milks (China and Taiwan) compared to those that consume dairy products, including milkfat from grass-fed cows and cattle. Similarly, another study showed that mean C15:0 content in human milk was 0.38%, while formula milks contained only 0.004% C15:0. Given these results, the authors of this study suggest that formula milks may need to be supplemented with C15:0 to better match human milk [80].

Time to look for Australian grass fed butter, or ghee.

4 Likes
#69

This is the test:

https://www.gdx.net/products

The bottom one under nutritional status testing. There’s another one above it I wonder about too.

#70

https://www.gdx.net/products/nutreval

  • Essential and Metabolic Fatty Acids Markers (RBCs)
    • Omega 3 Fatty Acids are essential for brain function and cardiovascular health and are anti-inflammatory
    • Omega 6 Fatty Acids are involved in the balance of inflammation
    • Omega 9 Fatty Acids are important for brain growth, nerve cell myelin, and reducing inflammation
    • Saturated Fatty Acids are involved in liproprotein metabolism and adipose tissue inflammation
    • Monounsaturated Fats include omega 7 fats and unhealthy trans fats
    • Delta-6 Desaturase Activity assesses efficiency of this enzyme to metabolize omega 6’s and omega 3’s
    • Cardiovascular Risk includes specific ratios and the Omega 3 Index

Just says saturated fats. No mention of C15.

#71

The page I put up, go to the bottom of the individual tests. Next is gut health, then Nutritional Status. Last 2 tests under Nutritional Status. #3543 and #3545 have to do with Fatty 15.

#72

Here it is:

Very interesting in the paper @JuanDaw posted above that we used to get enough from milk fat in the diet but now because people are restricting milk fat and cow’s diets are different (less grass/different grass) so the fat contains less C15, it’s hard to do anymore.

1 Like
#73

Now I see it. Thank you.

1 Like
#74

Anybody that is really bored can look at this study:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030203738910

It looks like corn stover is better than alfalfa hay. Boy that makes no sense at all to me.

#75

Overview. Corn stover refers to stalks, leaves and cobs that remain in fields after the corn harvest . This biomass can be used in producing ethanol. Corn stover is the primary biomass source being used for producing cellulosic ethanol in the United States (Wilhelm et al.) .

Corn Stover | Agricultural Marketing Resource Center(Wilhelm%20et%20al.

More fiber, more SCFA. (Highlighting in the article; not mine.).

#76

Lots of people believed in cellulosic ethanol for years and money was spent to figure out how to turn biomass (leftover) into more ethanol. Nobody in this country does it. There is one plant in Brazil that turns sugarcane biomass into ethanol. Here we turn corn into ethanol, the protein part is fed to cattle (DDG’s or WDG’s), syrup is sold off, sometimes the CO2 is sold off as dry ice.

Our local plant uses 160 semi loads of grain daily. Every day. There’s 3 plants I can drive to, so some competition. That’s where the grain’s going. Can you imagine how much stover you would need daily to make ethanol? And it’s not like it’s free to bale it all up and haul it around. And the stover is loaded with nutrients the next crop needs, so if you use it up you have to buy lots more fertilizer.

Usually when stover is fed the whole stalk and ear is ground up in the field and kept anaerobic in a bunker or silo where it ferments and is fed as silage. The articles I read had data that was not consistent about anything. Goats are picky eaters unless they’re starving. I toyed with the idea of trying it some, just to see how they feel about it. There’s not much protein in silage and milk goats need lots of protein, so we feed alfalfa hay here.

#77

A brutal review of C15

14 Likes
#79

Hello,
This is from a recent podcast with Dave Asprey.
What are your thoughts about this? It seems to be the side effects she is talking about are not from low dose use?
Thoughts on this?

Dr. Stephanie Venn-Watson (00:53:56):
So you’re right. There are not studies rapamycin, obviously, it’s on the top of almost everybody’s lifts of
the most promising longevity enabling molecule. Rapamycin, as you know, was discovered in Easter
Island produced by a bacterium. So it’s not something that we were intended to get exposed to for a whole
life. It is a very complex molecule. It is not something we would want to make because it’s a mess of a
molecule. And what comes with that are side effects. And so if you go and you look at the list of potential
side effects that rapamycin, no joke, there are over 30. You go to Mayo Clinic and it lists over 30. So
from what we have seen with fatty 15, if you are taking rapamycin purely for the longevity standpoint and
you’re having difficulty with it because of the side effects, then we would encourage you to try fatty 15
and look at, we really encourage, look for clinically relevant benefits.

1 Like
#80

I’ve been taking it for a year or 2. Stephanie believes in this product or she is the best soft sales person I have ever seen. I like listening to her.

I think they’re talking about chronic use, like for organ transplant. A few people that use it here have minor problems, but most use it anyway because of the benefits.

#81

This was good. Made me think.

hype cycle of supplements and longevity promoters in general

  • find non-clinical or animal based research that is suggestive of a possible solution to known human health issues or symptoms
  • establish a tangible, credible sounding target of improvement — make up a target range and a “syndrome” that explains common ills that result from a lack of the supplement (“cellular fragility syndrome”)
  • Figure out how to make money (of course) — get well know (TEDx or podcast promotion), offer something for sale (test, chemical) to retail or wholesale customers, help people to feel confident and able to demonstrate personal expertise to their friend group.

Buyer beware.

3 Likes
#82
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