#143

How is this sort of device better than just nasal breathing?

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#144

I can’t quite remember what sparked my interest just before Christmas last year (either an article or it was mentioned on some podcast I’d listened to) but my family wanted to know ideas for a Christmas present for me, and with nothing else particularly coming to mind I said get me one of those breath training devices.
I did look through what was available on Amazon to give some guidance as being a former wind instrument player I figured some basic device would be too easy and not achieve anything. In the end that particular model I highlighted had three versions available last year and I had the intermediate one. This sort only exercises the inhale and not the exhale as well. The claim was that only training the inhale is required.
Must admit I was a bit sceptical after a few weeks as didn’t notice any improvement in my exercise routines and I ended up doing it only once a day instead of the recommended twice. Thought I’d just keep going until next vo2max test and if no effect I was going to stop using it. Clearly a big effect though.
So that is it. I didn’t put much research into it and if it hadn’t been around Christmas time last year probably wouldn’t have given it another thought.

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#145

No idea why this is better than nasal breathing, but I tend to do nasal breathing all the time anyway so my improvement is only due to that device.

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#146

I’m interested in understanding this benefit. Are you saying your workouts were the same except for using this device that made breathing harder than nasal breathing? …and harder to inhale or exhale or both?

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#147

My workouts have barely changed over the intervening period. My zone 2 for an hour 3 times a week is all nasal breathing (and was before) with gradual improvement in distance achieved (personal bests).

Device makes it harder to inhale only.

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#148

Is the devise compatible with other activity?

Could I do while driving?

If I’m in a sauna or bath tub?

Just hanging out and watching TV?

—-

Do you have to wash it regularly or given the breath in only strengthening it says hygienic by itself?

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#149

I have a Breather Fit
Basically it’s strength training for the respiratory muscles. I used it a few years ago when I started exercising seriously to kickstart my fitness. At that time is has been useful but I have not re-tried it now that I’m in shape. I stopped after reaching the highest setting.

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#150

I don’t think you should do it whilst driving.
It’s only 30 breaths a session so just two or three minutes (whilst reading rapamycin.news or listening to a podcast or otherwise meditating). Definitely could do it watching tv though you might have to put the volume up a bit. In the sauna, probably. In the bath definitely.
I just wash it under the cold water tap for a few seconds after each use and leave it to dry, no problem.

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#151

Related, Blood pressure paper:

Conclusions and relevance: In this meta-analysis of randomized clinical trials, blood pressure lowering with antihypertensive agents compared with control was significantly associated with a lower risk of incident dementia or cognitive impairment

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#152

What about the optimal diastolic BP?

For instance, I have isolated “elevated” systolic BP (130–140 mmHg) but perfectly normal diastolic BP (24-hour BP monitor results below). I wonder whether there are anti-hypertensive that decrease SBP only. :thinking:

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#153

That’s an interesting question. I’m curious to learn about that.

FWIW, I understand systolic is thought to be the more important stat but the difference between the two (“pulse pressure”) is also thought to be important (higher is worse). My pulse pressure is 40 +-3.

Your BP doesn’t look low so you could do the obvious things to improve BP. I have done and am currently working on: making sure nitric oxide is good (nitrites from nitrates in diet, cialis to make NO last longer), get sleeping or morning HRV higher (stress mgmt), a little HIIT but a lot of easy work (walking, zone 1), add potassium foods or salt replacements, keep blood sugar down, etc.

Good luck.

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#154

I think I’m already doing most of the “lifestyle” intervention… However, the European Society of Hypertension (ESH) and the International Society of Hypertension (ISH) have just published their 2023 guidelines and there’s one part about “Isolated systolic hypertension of the young” (ISHY) where they say the condition is common among “tall men, nonsmokers and people active in sports” and for them, ISHY “was associated with no risk factors”, and according to them, requires no treatment. :person_shrugging:

Then they discuss “Isolated systolic hypertension in older persons” that requires treatment, but “Based on the data in aggregate, CCBs and Thiazide-like diuretics emerged as the drugs of choice for the management of ISH […] To prevent organ hypoperfusion, DBP should not be reduced below 70 mmHg by drug treatment, although compliance with this recommendation is often difficult as a large number of ISH patients already have a DBP <70 mmHg [874], and a considerable number exhibits values within the 70– 80 mmHg range. In population studies largely based on untreated patients, a very low DBP in ISH patients has been associated with a very high prevalence of CVD [874], although the causative factor may not only be poor vital organ perfusion but also a marked arterial stiffness, of which the very high pulse pressure value is a reflection. Treating ISH with low DBP remains a challenging task because of the difficulty to decrease SBP without reducing DBP at the same time, and to apply rigid safety diastolic boundaries, which may limit the achievement of SBP control, with its proven protective effect. […] However, aiming at SBP control remains the primary goal to improve outcome and, if well tolerated, this goal should be pursued also in patients with a low DBP. In the SHEP trial in patients with ISH, a treatment-induced reduction of SBP was accompanied by a clear reduction of major CV events, despite a DBP reduction that brought its average value to 68 mmHg [497].”

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#155

Thanks. At this point in my life, after many false promises, I do not put faith in any advice that says “athletes don’t have to worry about it” …they also said endurance athletes had higher calcification of arteries but that was okay because it was only higher calcification not higher soft plaques. Now they say oops.

It’s good to be athletic but that benefit can hide other problems from researchers. That’s my take anyway.

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#156

I agree. But unfortunately, I don’t see how I could safely reduce my SBP without lowering my DBP below 70 mm Hg. For instance, here are the effects of amlodipine 5 mg (the lowest dose?) and telmisartan 40 mg:

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(source: Comparison of Renal and Vascular Protective Effects between Telmisartan and Amlodipine in Hypertensive Patients with Chronic Kidney Disease with Mild Renal Insufficiency 2008)

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#157

Agreed. No need to use a bazooka to kill a mosquito.

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#158

I think it is important to consider average arterial BP (1/3 up from dbp).

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#159

It’s so hard to find good data on something as simple as the effect of telmisartan or amlodipine on BP… Anyway, I think the graphs I shared above are not generalisable to the whole population as the trial focused on “Hypertensive Patients with Chronic Kidney Disease with Mild Renal Insufficiency”.

Indeed, this 2016 meta-analysis gives blood pressure reduction of 13.5/8.9 mm Hg for telmisartan and 11.5/8.7 mm Hg for amlodipine (Fig. 3 in Treatment efficacy of anti-hypertensive drugs in monotherapy or combination). They note that “female sex and BMI higher than 25 kg/m2 were associated with reductions in SBP/DBP larger than the median reduction […] while the Afro-American ethnicity was associated with a reduction in BP smaller than the median reduction”

Also, from another meta-analysis: “the dose–response curve with ARBs was shallow with decrease of 10.3/6.7 (systolic/diastolic), 11.7/7.6, and 13.0/8.3 mmHg with 25% max dose, 50% max dose, and with the max dose of ARBs, respectively.” (Antihypertensive efficacy of angiotensin receptor blockers as monotherapy as evaluated by ambulatory blood pressure monitoring: a meta-analysis 2013).

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#160

how to measure it? what is 1/3 up from dbp?

#161

so antihypertensive agents are neuroprotective as well as SSRIs.

#162

Either antihypertensive agents are neuroprotective or… high blood pressure is neuroprotective: you cannot tell from longitudinal studies :wink:

And, actually, DBP seems to be neuroprotective: “Perhaps one of the more interesting results in this study is the possible distinct causal effects of SBP vs. DBP. The authors observed some overlapping results for SBP and DBP on cognitive function when analysed in isolation. However, when each parameter is analysed after adjusting for the other, or in multivariable models, intriguing findings begin to emerge. DBP alone does not predict a decline in cognitive function, but in fact, is protective when adjusted for SBP. This result was true both observationally and when using Mendelian randomisation.” ( World first: Researchers identify specific regions of the brain that are damaged by high blood pressure and are involved in a decline in mental processes and dementia )

Also, not all anti-hypertensive agents are equal. In particular, beta-blockers are associated with higher rates of Parkinson’s and Lewy body dementia (but we don’t know if there’s a causal effect):

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(source: A comparison between early presentation of dementia with Lewy Bodies, Alzheimer’s disease and Parkinson’s disease: evidence from routine primary care and UK Biobank data. 2023)

Even among other categories (diuretics, CCBs, and RAAS inhibitors), there are subcategories: Association of New Use of Antihypertensives That Stimulate vs Inhibit Type 2 and 4 Angiotensin II Receptors With Dementia Among Medicare Beneficiaries

So it’s not easy…

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