#1

Hi everyone.

I would like to discuss here whats your opinion about finasteride or more generally about DHT.

We already know finasteride is used both for hairloss and prostate. However its not what I want to discuss here.

It was proven that balding people have a strong relationship with… cardiovascular disease.

It was never proven however that male patern baldness is associated with high serum dht. Actually looks quite the opposite. But… we know for sure that dht is still the main issue for both prostate overgrowth and baldness. And that finasteride cure them all.

Interestingly, serum dht is low in young bald men but they do have high saliva dht ! And finasteride decrease dht not only in serum but also in tissue.

So whats your opinion on this first part ?

Because we still have to understand how dht is the main issue and still be low in plasma while high in saliva in the mean time. Doesnt make sense but still fact.

We have to understand why is the association baldness / cardiovascular disease. And why people who have more body hair, including beard, looks often older (and remember the studies that show association between looking old and actually being old from a cells point of view…) ?

I can supply this topic of course with data if anyone need.

Second part :

People who use finasteride for prostate seems to develop adverse effect such as diabete… while the ones who use for mpb trends just the opposite ! Dosage difference ?

I would like to handle this topic in the way hormokes influences aging and how we could cure it.

Here its exact same kind of crazy puzzle as we have with mTOR downstream :face_with_open_eyes_and_hand_over_mouth:

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#2

If I remember correctly, balding and body hair has much more to do with the sensitivity of a person’s androgen receptors than the absolute level of DHT. Two people can have the same level of DHT but the one with receptors that are more reactive to DHT will get the balding phenotype.

I would love to take finasteride but I’ve tried a few times and it just affects me too negatively.

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#3

This would have been the easiest explanation but its definitely wrong because:

1/ that was true, then you wouldnt have that strong connexion balding / cardiovascular disease

2/ the hormonal profile of balding persons are different : high prolactin, high saliva dht, low T, high DHEAS, low FSH, high LH (imbalance)

Take thoses facts and try again. Personnaly im lost :smiley:

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#4

At the core miniaturisation of hair follicles has mitochondrial inefficiency as a cause and also an increase in senescence. This is probably as a result of the cellular response to androgens, but also lies at core of aging in other tissues.

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#5

Curious if you have data on this. Baldness not generally considered a risk factor for heart disease in medical formulas.

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#6

Vertex baldness (where the finasteride is the most efficient) associated with CVD : https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/3/4/e002537

Androgenic alopecia and Coronary artery disease : Androgenetic alopecia and risk of coronary artery disease - PMC

Weaker association here, but still an association : Male-pattern baldness and incident coronary heart disease and risk factors in the Heinz Nixdorf Recall Study - PMC

Male-pattern baldness and premature greying are associated with a more than fivefold risk of heart disease before the age of 40 years, according to research presented at the 69th Annual Conference of the Cardiological Society of India (CSI). Obesity was associated with a fourfold risk of early heart disease. : Male-pattern baldness and premature greying associated with risk of early heart disease

So anyone worrying about aging should study the androgenic topic, not just the one who are balding.

More and more even women suffer from androgen imbalance as well and should also consider this topic as serious.

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#7

FYI. All finasteride users. Listen to Attia’s latest podcast on prostate. Lots of troubling info on finasteride.

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#8
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#9

The person I consider THE authority on the topic of DHT made a couple of videos about that topic. Don’t let yourself be off put by his demeanor and just listen to him going over existing research.

Why going bald can kill you - YouTube

Why DHT can kill you (DHT is a trash hormone part IX) - YouTube

DHT is a trash hormone part 4. DHT causes heart disease. - YouTube

Finasteride is good for your brain - YouTube

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#10

Can you perhaps post the points raised in the video and the existing research backing up the claims?

#11

To his credit, he includes references to his sources:

Articles: Agamia, Naglaa F., Tamer Abou Youssif, Abeer El-Hadidy, and Amr El-Abd. 2016. “Benign Prostatic Hyperplasia, Metabolic Syndrome and Androgenic Alopecia: Is There a Possible Relationship?” Arab Journal of Urology 14 (2): 157–62. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.aju.2016.01….

Heilmann-Heimbach, Stefanie, Lara M. Hochfeld, Ralf Paus, and Markus M. Nöthen. 2016. “Hunting the Genes in Male-Pattern Alopecia: How Important Are They, How Close Are We and What Will They Tell Us?” Experimental Dermatology 25 (4): 251–57. https://doi.org/10.1111/exd.12965.

Li, Rui, Felix F. Brockschmidt, Amy K. Kiefer, Hreinn Stefansson, Dale R. Nyholt, Kijoung Song, Sita H. Vermeulen, et al. 2012. “Six Novel Susceptibility Loci for Early-Onset Androgenetic Alopecia and Their Unexpected Association with Common Diseases.” PLOS Genetics 8 (5): e1002746. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen….

Papa, Nathan P., Robert J. MacInnis, Dallas R. English, Damien Bolton, Ian D. Davis, Nathan Lawrentschuk, Jeremy L. Millar, Gianluca Severi, John L. Hopper, and Graham G. Giles. 2018. “Early-Onset Baldness and the Risk of Aggressive Prostate Cancer: Findings from a Case-Control Study.” Cancer Causes & Control: CCC 29 (1): 93–102. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10552-017-09….

Trieu, Nelson, and Guy D. Eslick. 2014. “Alopecia and Its Association with Coronary Heart Disease and Cardiovascular Risk Factors: A Meta-Analysis.” International Journal of Cardiology 176 (3): 687–95. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ijcard.2014….

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#12

What are the conclusions on finasteride? I currently take .5 mg daily. Thanks @约瑟夫_拉维尔

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#13

Finasteride / DHT, more confusing and concerning topics. I’m interesting in anything that would shrink a prostate, but Finasteride’s potential side effects (including higher depression/suicide rates, even after stopping treatment) stop me in my tracks. Also, doesn’t Creatine increase DHT in the body? I’d like to take that supplement, but that concerns me as well. All that being said, some guys are very happy with their Finasteride regime.

Some info about this in this podcast:

#260 ‒ Men’s Sexual Health: why it matters, what can go wrong, and how to fix it | Mohit Khera, M.D., M.B.A., M.P.H. - Peter Attia (peterattiamd.com)

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#14

The evidence for “post-finasteride syndrome” is very weak (the studies done by the PFS Foundation include their own forum members and are, at best, associations) and most doctors and the CDC don’t even believe its a real thing.

Most doctors agree that Post Finasteride Syndrome is fake news - YouTube

Also, doesn’t Creatine increase DHT in the body? I’d like to take that supplement, but that concerns me as well.

The initial study for creatine and DHT was never reproduced.

Wrong! Creatine Does NOT Cause Hair Loss - YouTube
The truth about creatine and hair loss - YouTube
Does creatine supplementation cause hair loss? - YouTube

#15

Thanks for that information. I’m inclined to believe that finasteride is probably OK, but am putting any action on this for myself on pause for now.

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#16

The post finasteride syndrome is really crap. How someone can explain us WHY there is NO post dutasteride syndrome then ? While this last one is far more potent to decrease DHT ? it inhibit both type 1 and 2 5AR enzyme.

I still believe we should play caution with both molecule. Low dose and maybe transitant because long term finasteride use is linked to decreased T. So definitely not use the 5mg dosage but only stick to the 1mg + maybe only once every other day.

Also, one has to be cautious because low DHT is also linked with increase all mortality risk. So no DHT is not just a trash hormone. Again, hair loss sufferer DO NOT necessary have high DHT, actually the opposite : bald men were more prone to low serum DHT.

There is a difference between serum DHT and saliva DHT.

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#17

Can you post a study for that effect? I know finasteride can increase both testosterone and estrogen due to 5ar inhibition but never heard of it lowering testosterone.

Also, one has to be cautious because low DHT is also linked with increase all mortality risk.
For that I’d also like to see a study because 5ar inhibitors seem to reduce the incidence of prostate cancer, one of the biggest killers for men.
Effect of Dutasteride on the Risk of Prostate Cancer | NEJM

At the same time finasteride could have potentially beneficial effects on cardiovascular health, although the evidence for that is weak.
Anti-androgenic therapy with finasteride in patients with chronic heart failure - a retrospective propensity score based analysis | Scientific Reports (nature.com)

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#18

Just saw my urologist for my annual checkup… literally 2 hours ago.

My PSA 0.74… he says excellent. No issue keeping me on finasteride 5mg daily. Refills for the next year.

Typically do a tablet every other day.

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#19

You’re taking finasteride for BPH, correct?

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#20

I have been on finasteride since I was 32 years old… so, 33 years of use no issues. No ED, depression… or anything else.

Used for prostate health… and preventing hair loss. According to my urologist, my prostate is small like a person in their 20’s… no urine flow issues… can go all night without waking to take a pee.

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