#268

@desertshores I’m a bit confused by several of your posts. Are you saying that the drugs being talked about here have no side effects? Or it just doesn’t matter to you?

1 Like
#269

That’s the level of discussion we’re at. Everything is considered an argument against the ‘safety’ of azithromycin. When my post was clearly quoting something specifically and referring to the ivermectin case of people starting to resort to stories when they ran out of science. And that was what you were doing when you were referring to an award they won for Azithromycin. (related to the nobel prize for discovering ivermectin).

It was not a straw man.

If you start your sentence with “you basically say”, next is probably not going to be anything I said at all.
I was referring to the fact you’re wondering if I am posting in this thread to “convince people it is an unsafe drug”, and my response is that I am responding to what I think are the flaws in your argumentation against what I posted.

You can disagree with me, and engage with me, and I will respond many times to that engagement. But don’t claim that “I am trying to convince others it is an unsafe drug” when I am engaging with an argument you’ve put against what I’ve posted. So I am not allowed to counter respond because it it would make the drug seem less safe?

I am convinced you are a zealot for this drug for no apparent reason. You could just say “Yeah it’s a human clinical trial, but it was done in a specific cohort of people, and so that doesn’t change my risk-reward calculation of it” and be done with it. Instead you’re exclaiming that we’re against the safety of this drug… for everyone? Even though we personally might think the risk vs. reward is not good, I don’t think we do so for everyone. Everyone gets to decide their own risk vs. reward when it comes to a compound. And the human clinical trial didn’t only address safety but also benefit. If human cancer patients have higher relapse not less that makes you wonder about a drug said to reduce relapse by reducing CSCs in breast cancer cells in a petri dish.

#270

You know I never said or implied that.
You are contributing nothing to the discussion.
You are merely being a troll.

2 Likes
#271

Wow. Name calling, denial, etc. what happened to you.
I can only contribute to the discussion if I understand your point of view.
You clearly have implied in several posts that Zithromax is safe, and does not have concerning side effects.

1 Like
#272

Azithromycin is second most prescribed antibiotic. As any drug it comes with side effects, but it has proven a good safety and effectiveness not only as antibiotic and is used in prolonged treatments of various conditions as anti-inflammatory agent. If risk would be be high as proposed @AnUser it would be picked up in the last 35 years it is in use. Anyone using a drug off label of course should know what the risk are and take appropriate decision, but I read the study, did some digging and I must say that without dismissing the results of the study I don’t think it has much relevance in the case of this “broscience” experiment (I explained above in one of the answers, but to recap it is a risk of cancer relapse in a very small subset of patient with two specific cancers that underwent stem cell transplant). But you and others might have a different view. And while I find the information shared on safety of azithromycin most valuable I don’t understand the subsequent fight for who is right and who is wrong on the matter in a subject that probably as most cases of complex questions does not have a very simple answer and nothing is black or white. I also had a feeling that while for some it was merely a spectators sport for some it become (deeply) personal. And this is where I find the whole debate very unproductive.

7 Likes
#273

Why are you all just talking about risk as if the only thing that clinical trial has shown is risk? Read what I’ve said and see that it is other people who primarily have engaged me with risk, not me with them. I have never said it is high risk. I am overall against antibiotics unless they are necessary because of claims of problems with microbiome, that would more for me put it at an ‘unknown risk’.

I have mostly questioned the efficacy until people started being zealots about risk.

1 Like
#274

Carnac the Magnificent

I see a conniption.

What will occur when I start post about my planning 4 combination of compounds.

300px-Carnac_the_Magnificent

3 Likes
#276

Imo only desperate ppl, who don’t have much to lose, would try something like DAV. If I were 80+, I would try it. I would try it also if I had cancer . This shouldn’t be taken as an advice. I myself hate advices or pressure. For whatever reason a group of ppl here at this forum made a choice to try it. I respect their decision and wish them success.

9 Likes
#277

:+1:

Good luck to the DAV cultists.

1 Like
#279

Risk?

You are taking rapamycin for your transplant. This comment would not apply to you.

Rapamycin sold in the US has the death symbol on the package.

Azithromycin does not

Doxycycline does not

Which of the three has a larger/higher risk?

Yet healthy people on this forum take rapamycin
“off-label” use for life extension/longevity.

And the majority of the convention medical professionals think people who do this have something wrong mentally. Taking an
Immunosuppressive agent for longevity.

Everyone taking rapamycin for longevity is doing so on a leap of faith with plucked from air dosing.

3 Likes
#280

If it was deleted by the author, why are you posting it?

#281

Azithromycin is the most common antibiotic prescribed in Hong Kong. I’ve taken it a few times. It’s probably safer/more effective than other antibiotics available at this time.

Vitamin C is so safe, I’m not even going to discuss it.

Doxycycline is a common antibiotic with a long safety track record.

The DAV protocol seems to be very safe. We just do not know the effectiveness. And like everything, someone somewhere may have a negative reaction to it.

Everyone taking it is aware of the possibilities both positive and negative.

4 Likes
#282

All antibiotics have side effects.
Azithromycin has been used for decades and has a good safety record.
It is undoubtedly as safe or safer than many of the drugs people in the forum are taking.

WHO, NIH, BMJ, NEJM, etc etc. consider azithromycin to be safe with only a few caveats.
So, you think you know more than the authorities and authors of studies about azithromycin?

“The most common side effects were diarrhea (3.6%), abdominal pain (2.5%), and other gastrointestinal symptoms. Ninety-three percent of side effects were classed as mild or moderate, and only 0.7% of patients withdrew from treatment, significantly less (p <0.001) than with comparative agents (2.6%). The frequency of side effects was not affected by patient age. Azithromycin had no marked or consistent effect on laboratory safety parameters. Treatment-related laboratory abnormalities were rare, the most common being transient increases of ALT and AST in 1.7% and 1.5% of patients, respectively. Specific tests revealed no neurologic, audiometric, or ophthalmologic abnormalities, or evidence of phospholipidosis. There were no pharmacokinetic interactions observed with theophylline, warfarin, cimetidine,”

“Azithromycin, a broad-spectrum macrolide antibiotic, has been reported to be relatively free of cardiotoxic effects”

726×411 55.8 KB

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000293439190401I
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000293439190401I
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa1003833#:~:text=Azithromycin%2C%20a%20broad-spectrum%20macrolide,relatively%20free%20of%20cardiotoxic%20effects.&text=However%2C%20the%20closely%20related%20drugs,risk%20of%20sudden%20cardiac%20death.

1 Like
#283

Guys - please just take a break from the site for a day or two to calm down if the discussion is getting personal (on either side). No ad-hominem attacks, no name calling, no calling people trolls, no reposting a post a person has deleted…

Hard on the science, easy on the people.

I don’t like active moderating and don’t like giving “time outs”… We’re all adults here. Just treat each other here with basic respect. Its ok to differ in opinions - if you aren’t convincing someone, just state your case and walk away from the thread.

15 Likes
#284

I absolutely love this outlook!
I hope in my sharing that I haven’t contributed in any negative way. I would still like to share my experience when it’s over fully acknowledging that it is just an N-1 and not representative of anything other than my personal experience.
I really felt drawn to trying this because the idea of doing something in the senolytic realm aligns with where I’m at in my new longevity journey. At 54 (next month) I feel a bit behind what I could have/should have done but didn’t know about previously. I have definitely made great strides since last January though and want to thank you and everyone here who shares science and personal experiences that help keep me motivated and inspired to be the best version of myself possible.

8 Likes
#285

I’ll be joining you soon (no pressure on or invitation to others to follow my personal decision). How is it going? My biggest worry is killing my gut microbe friends. Going to prebiotic, postbiotic, and probiotic to the MAX :blush:

5 Likes
#286

Your (and Rmun’s) low dose approach seems to find support below:

Heading to work. Will read full text later.

Firstly, we sought to revisit the previously published OSKM treatment, which was to administrate 1 mg/ml DOX, two days a week, throughout life on our heterozygous progeric model (12). Thus, we tested a simplified protocol, where a reduced concentration was added continuously throughout life, and used the previously published chronic induction protocol as a reference. Strikingly, this simplified protocol gave near identical improvement to heterozygous lifespan than the chronic one, with a high increase in median age of death, from 42.6 to 55.6 weeks, meaning that lower doses of doxycycline could be effective (Figure 1A, Supplementary Figure 1A). There was also a significant reduction in age-related weight loss, when compared to non-induced control animals

Collectively, these results demonstrate for the first time that a single short transient expression of reprogramming factors in vivo can increase lifespan of progeric and non-progeric mice.

4 Likes
#287

Walter, If in the end nothing major comes from the experiment I’m happy it prompted me to finally start making and drinking water kefir. I’ve had that one in the back of my mind for years but just never got around to doing it. Knowing I’d need to be mindful of my dairy consumption around doxycycline of which yogurt/homemade yogurt is a big part spurred me to order water kefir grains and get to work.

2 Likes
#288

Thanks for alerting me to dairy and doxycycline. May modify my nuts-seeds-fruits-and-yogurt daily health binge :slight_smile:

#289

Hi, I guess I missed the dairy / doxy connection. I eat a lot of yogurt. What is the consequence of mixing these please?