#1

Low Isoleucine (& Valine) but not Leucine

This is interesting. Does anyone have any good ideas for how to accomplish eating a low isoleucine but not low leucine amino acid diet? I can only think of eating low protein and supplementing with leucine.

#2

But then you are essentially reducing protein intake which isn’t healthy.

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#3

Right. Maybe a plant protein heavy diet plus leucine. That way I’d get the EAA but low isoleucine.

#4

I have no good idea but this is very interesting. More to follow.

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#5

Top happen to be processed meat - salami, beerwurst, sausage.

You can also filter by fish and other food groups.

If you do not filter, and choose all food groups, you get the widow makers - high omega 6 oils - 1. rice bran oil, 2. wheat germ oil. Number 3 is orange soda.

Beer is number 13. Gin, rum, vodka and whiskey, 17. Cheers.

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#6

This is a great resource. Unfortunately I cannot find a way to do better than reduce isoleucine by approx 30% while still getting enough protein. I wonder if a ⅓ drop is enough to provide the longevity benefit? I suppose I could construct an entire protein source using individual AA but what a pain. Anyone else come up with an angle?

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#7

This was a really good article on this Experimental Fat Loss: Show me the (BCAA) studies

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#8

Thanks. These are very good summaries. A few thoughts:

  • I wonder if humans would eat less (fewer calories) if protein restricted (as was shown in the mouse studies). I always felt protein was satiating.
  • protein restriction here just means close to RDA (so more like 75-100g vs 150-200g of protein). I have already been moving that way so this doesn’t seem too hard.
  • how to remove isoleucine or nearly all BCAAs from the diet? No animal proteins, obviously. Eat plant based and supplement leucine? Make sure we get sufficient EAA but no more?

This new information on protein has shaken my confidence in my belief in the importance of protein.

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#9

Remember once again that you’re extrapolating from lab mice data.

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#10

Indeed the bro’s have known this for decades, if you want to cut fat without losing muscle you increase your protein intake but restrict energy ie. carbs, fats and alcohol. (And I mean this unironically). And humans unlike lab mice can fall, break their hips and die (and that’s beside the fact that being frail and weak just sucks)

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#11

Luigi Fontana seems to be doing quite well on his low protein diet at 54.

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#12

He looks his age. Even with a full head of hair he’d only pass for mid-to-late 40s at best.

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#13

There is also that we mechanistically understand how it is impacting things in human in a more clear way here than in other context

  • on the one hand more proteins helps build more muscle, helps with glucose metabolism and help prepare a person to avoid sarcopenia and osteopenia (although resistance training is a more important driver of those good things than protein itself)

  • on the other hand above comes via (and at the cost of) growth pathways being turned on, eg mTOR, I think IGF-1, and so on) that in many ways drive aging phenotypes

—-

And on the mouse data side, that data is arguably of a strong and well replicated type

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#14

What will kill you faster? Frailty or too high mTOR activity (which can be mitigated using rapamycin)? You don’t want to be the youngest looking patient is a hospice.

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#15

Meant Ironically I presume? I am by no means a gym buff (more a cyclist) but his lower legs are thinner than my upper arms…

he lost all the elasticity in his face too

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He probably has osteoporosis too

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#16

Sunday, not much to do but blog, blog blog. :laughing:

Peter Attia has a very good discussion on protein requirements vs age etc.

He also makes an argument for why protein intake is not limiting lifespan.

You are not going to increase muscle mass without adequate protein intake, period.

Frailty and sarcopenia are not an option for me. I compare myself to other 80-year-olds around me and figure I must be in the upper 5 -10% in fitness and certainly the upper 5% in strength. I belong to a gym with a lot of members and there are very few, if any at my age, with my level of physical strength and general health.

The problem, I have, is getting the 1gm/lb he recommends for someone my age.

That is close to 2 lbs. of steak every day. I have 4 - 6 oz of steak with breakfast most days.

I get the rest of the protein mainly from protein (whey) shakes and protein bars.

I am currently getting ready for an N=1 experiment to prove that an 82-yr. old can not only maintain muscle mass but increase mass. Spoiler alert, I already know this to be true, but I have not properly documented it.

I will be getting fairly comprehensive baseline bloodwork done before I start.

When I start I will publish the before picture and in 90 days the after.

The before picture will show the result of going to the gym on a regular basis since 2006, and in spite of the fact that I have had below normal T, DHEA, and also fall on the low end of estrogen.

2016

2023

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My clomiphene arrived. I hope it works to raise my T without too many unpleasant side effects because I now have a lifetime supply. :rofl:

I am not sure of the dosage because the doses that people are taking are wildly variable.

It is hard to find a recommended dosage because that also seems to be wildly variable.

I am going to start with 25mg every other day. Some people say they take 50mg daily but that seems too much. I will monitor my T levels monthly.

If anyone has personal experience with clomiphene I would appreciate any insight as to dosage.

My only change at the gym will be to increase the total volume of weights used for resistance training.

Another observation at the gym is that previous “body-builders on steroids” don’t age well and even though they remain well-muscled, they look older than their age and have obviously not been able to maintain muscle mass. I am thinking, they peaked too soon.

I have been thin most of my life, with a few exceptions, and I am an ectomorph and what is called by gym rats, a hard gainer.

I don’t believe that I have lost any muscle mass because I have been steadily and slowly increasing muscle mass.

This figure represents my self-perceived journey:

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#17

@desertshores You are my hero and a model for all of us!!!

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#18

Good luck. It sounds like you are doing great. I am also a born thin person. I hated it in middle and early high school. I wanted to be muscularly thick. I started lifting at 17. The muscles came slowly but surely as long as I kept at it. I never emphasized protein or excess calories because I didn’t know what I was doing when I was young (but I was young and recovered fast), and I have continued to lift off and on since 20.

Regaining my old muscle was always easy. The new muscle was always hard. I am at my peak muscle right now (at 61) after 3 years of hitting the gym hard 3X/wk plus 200g of protein every day.

Since rapa (6 mos) I have been backing off the protein. I eat 100-120g on my anabolic days; 70g on my non-anabolic days of the week. I’ve seen no impact on strength or muscle mass or recovery so far.

Fingers crossed.

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#19

Please, give me some tips. How do you achieve 200 g of protein per day?

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#20

Not Joseph and probably not popular around here but I get about 150grams per day as a 5’1 96-98 pound female with eggs, egg whites, seafood, unflavored whey, unflavored pea or rice protein, low fat dairy of all kinds (milk, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese etc) and lean meats. If you read Ted Naiman MD’s book The P:E Diet he makes a pretty good case for prioritizing protein for building muscle. I understand this is at odds with many in the longevity realm so I don’t talk about it much. It’s just a personal choice for my own lifestyle because I benefit in my everyday life and enjoy being strong right now.

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