#61

Wow, there is a lot of bad information here. The testosterone half-life is such that it should ideally be given twice a week. 1mg a week is usually sufficient in men but needs testing for free testosterone to adjust

The dose suggested at 250 mg every three weeks is just wrong. You would go from excessively high levels to hypogonadic levels in your cycle of three weeks.

With regard to the DHT, this is an andogenic not anabolic steroid. It brings about baldness, body hair growth, and increased acne, but does not typically increase muscle mass, certainly not as much as testosterone cypionate,

Good luck

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#62

“Wow, there is a lot of bad information here”;

  • “1mg a week” type error I suppose

  • The dose suggested is 62,5 mg every 4 days of sustanon.

  • Testosterone half-life depends on the ester, without mentioning this, a good dosage advice per week is not possible

  • Testosterone dosage can be adjusted to obtain a high enough free testosteron level, but sometimes it’s healthier to use something else to lower Sex Hormone Binding Globuline…

  • DHT is, like all natural hormones and in the right dose, necessary for optimal physical performance.

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#63

I do believe I mentioned testosterone cypionate. A three week interval is a very poor choice for dosing. “Natural” is not necessarily best. In Europe DHT is a controlled drug. And its use is more for androgenic effect than anabolic effect. Basic pharmacology, half-life and volume of distribution and finally tissue specific action.

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#64

Muscle mass is not dependent on DHT.
5α-Reductase inhibition does not adversely affect muscle mass | Nature Reviews Urology

Here’s a video going over the current research showing that natural DHT (unlike exogenous DHT) has no role in muscle performance. The sources are listed in the description.
DHT is a trash hormone part 6. Why DHT isn’t important for muscles or strength - YouTube

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#65

There’s a lot of contradictory information out there. And a lot of self-proclaimed authorities. All I know is that the gel is making me stronger, and I’m not embarrassed to be seen with my shirt off.

@Ludovic, you seem to be dialed in, although 900 may be high. How old are you?

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#66

Six years ago, I was put on gel for 6 months, I think my test was around 650 - 700 on it. I am 46 years old and I agree that for longevity 900 is probably to high… I have to admit that I like to perform and feel like I am still 25 years old… I work-out 7 hours per week, I weigh 190 pounds and can still deadlift 400 pounds on a bad day and I ran a half marathon in 2 hours last month.
For longevity a level of 700 probably would be beter. I would also only recommend TRT if your are willing to do enough cardio to keep your hematocrit in check

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#67

I know that DHT has a bad reputation and I can see that for longevity / prostate health / hair loss prevention, DHT reduction makes sense, but for me personally, it takes away my energy. I tried finasteride 1mg / day for 2 months for hair loss prevention and energy in the gym and bedroom went down, so I stopped it. Also all the DHT derived anabolic steroids are highly used by powerlifters, because they cause more strengh gains then testosteron. That’s why I believe you need all your natural hormones to perform optimal. But maybe suppressing DHT is better in the long run…

1 Like
#68

Exogenous DHT definitely works, absolutely.

#69

“Testosterone plays a role in mediating energetic trade-offs between growth, maintenance, and reproduction. Investments in a high testosterone phenotype trade-off against other functions, particularly survival-enhancing immune function and cellular repair; thus only individuals in good condition can maintain both a high testosterone phenotype and somatic maintenance.”

My question is can it go both ways? It makes sense that being healthy (and not chronically stressed) would allow for natural, feel-good levels of T production. But, can I supplement T to get the same health benefits? Is the benefit of T, including feeling better and having more muscle just hiding the symptoms without addressing the real problem? Or does T solve the problem?

Pontzer (Burn) says the hadza have lower testosterone than Americans despite massive amounts of physical activity and “chasing lions off kills.”. He also says in this Scientific American article that endurance exercise is critical for health, and it lowers testosterone. Is lower T a problem or merely an effect?

Who is the expert on this?

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#70

Here’s another Pontzer article that is relevant to this discussion. Pontzer is a proponent of the constrained metabolism idea which argues that a more active lifestyle turns down bodily functions which accelerate aging (my words).

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#71

If you enjoy bike riding and/or running do it for the enjoyment. It probably won’t extend your lifespan.

When I was in my teens, I became interested in yoga, specifically hatha yoga. I took a mail-order course from Paramahansa Yogananda at the Self-Realization Fellowship. Which was founded in 1920 and is still active. The price of the lessons was quite reasonable.

What I remember is breathing exercises and postures did not involve much, if any, aerobic expenditure.

If you care to “Google it” you will find that yogis in India live much longer than the general population. None of the yoga “exercises” involve much energy expenditure.

One interesting point of view with some practitioners was that we are allotted a specific number of breaths and heartbeats and we should try to slow them down by doing breathing exercises, etc.

Women live longer than men and generally from my observation spend less time at the gym.
So, even though I go to the gym and exercise regularly, I think: It does more to keeping me out of the nursing home than extending my lifespan.

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#72

Staying out of the nursing home is good enough.

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#73

One interesting point of view with some practitioners was that we are allotted a specific number of breaths and heartbeats and we should try to slow them down by doing breathing exercises, etc.

If one becomes fit by exercise, the heart rate goes down. Elite athletes, for instance, have resting heart rates in the 40s (Bjorn Borg, 42). So even though the heart rate is elevated during exercise, it is slower throughout the day. So they use up one half of their allocated heart beats, compared to one with a resting heart rate in the 80s.

With regard to yogis, although they do not exercise, they can enter into hypometabolic states like animals hibernating. So they use up less of their allocated heart beats and other energy as well.

The Atlantic – 9 Aug 22

1200×625 57.6 KB

Hibernation: The Extreme Lifestyle That Can Stop Aging

Hunkering down for the winter helps bats cheat death. But doing so comes at a steep cost.

cdnc.ucr.edu

San Francisco Call 21 June 1896 — California Digital Newspaper Collection

California Digital Newspaper Collection

“Two wonderful cases of human hibernation by yogis”

The ability to enter a state of hypometabolism has been validated by three scientists.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/030645658790060X

Abstract

  1. It has been claimed that Indian yogis can voluntarily become hypometabolic (bhoogarbha samadhi) in a sealed underground chamber as a means of remaining in a mediative state for multiday periods.

  2. To investigate this claim we obtained cooperation of a practitioner of bhoogarbha samadhi. In an open flow system, we measured his resting rate of oxygen consumption and also his oxygen consumption rate over a 5 h period during which he was requested to display his abilities to become hypometabolic as if he were in bhoogarbha samadhi.

  3. The yogi’s resting O2 consumption was 3.06 ml O2kg-1 min1 and his O2 consumption over a 4h period of meditation was 1.85±0.26 ml O2kg-1min-1, a reduction of 40%.

  4. At the beginning of the mediation there was a peripheral vasodilation and a fall in core body temperature of 0.4°C. These events were reversed at the end of the meditation period.

  5. This study confirms that Indian yogis can enter a state of self-induced hypometabolism, but the mechanisms remain unknown.

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#74

Very interesting. (Extra characters)

#75

That would seem to go against the opinion of most experts in the field.

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#76

@Ludovic Have you tried other forms of Testosterone? Is the gel messy or easy to use?

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#77

Unfortunately, the discipline required to obtain such states takes too much time for most Westerners.

#78

You might try Sulforophane (commonly found in Brussel sprouts). There is published evidence that it reduces myostatin levels and improves muscle growth. I don’t have the reference at hand but if you do a search you’ll probably find it.

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#79

Agreed. But the point is, reduced energy expenditure throughout the day, seems to be anti aging. So one can achieve it by exercise (reduction in heart beats), or by Eastern practices.

#80

Interesting… I had not seen this research. Seems positive:

Sulforaphane prevents dexamethasone-induced muscle atrophy via regulation of the Akt/Foxo1 axis in C2C12 myotubes

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0753332217327051

Sulforaphane treatment protects skeletal muscle against damage induced by exhaustive exercise in rats

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/japplphysiol.00293.2009

Sulforaphane prevents age-associated cardiac and muscular dysfunction through Nrf2 signaling

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/acel.13261

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