#81

Really? Mine is much more stable as is my daytime resting HR. My nighttime is around 50(±1-2) all the time, daytime fluctuates from 53-65… might be apple watch algorithm, but sometimes I notice the difference on stressed days.

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#82

That’s interesting. Mine is widely variable during the night (generally falling from about 50-55bpm to 38-40 over 4-6 hours). But, that can change depending on 2 things: (1) food intake – if i am fasting (no dinner in particular), my HR starts lower and falls immediately to 40-ish and stays there all night (+/- 5), (2) if I did cardio exercise in evening, my HR will be higher and fall more slowly to only 45 bpm (+/-5). During the day, my HR moves around as my activity level changes but if I’m still for a while, my HR will be around 45-55 bpm). I’m using an Oura ring for measurement.

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#83

One thing I wondered recently is whether a high level of Rapamycin in my blood caused a higher variability in HR whilst sleeping. However, when I looked at the previous doses it did not seem to have the same variation as the last two (remembering I am an infrequent doser although there was only 3 weeks between the last two doses).

It did, however, seem to be much more variable when a higher level of R was in blood serum the last two times.

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#84

Is it a two part type of approach where there is a mechanical cuff you calibrate with on a now and then basis and in-between it uses optimal and algorithmic estimation?

#85

I think you could say that. There is a mechanical cuff that uses three inflations to calculate BP on one arm whilst the bracelet is on the other arm.

This is supposed to be used at least every month to calibrate, but could be used more frequently.

I checked the BP using Omron just after doing the calibration. I did not do it at the same time because aktila needs both arms. It was about the same. Omron 122/81-66 Aktila 130/86-66

It stores an average value for each two hours. This is calculated from a number of values (possibly ones which are reasonably consistent as otherwise the average would be meaningless - including things like adjustments when starting to run etc).

It is difficult to compare it to Omron because I don’t know when it is measuring BP hence my Omron values are at different times.

I have been measuring BP more frequently than normal because I am trying to understand why my BP has changed a bit. There is an interesting formula for cardiac output that uses the delta between systolic and diastolic BP. At a low heart rate, therefore, cardiac output can be maintained with a higher stroke volume which can be estimated via the BP delta.

I have tended to rely on the idea that average arterial pressure is the diastolic plus 1/3 of the delta.

However, when sleeping I think my cardiac output does not need to be so high. However, with the Omron I need to take a measurement when waking at night where as Aktila is non-invasive and I just sleep through. I am thinking of getting the Omron equivalent if I can sleep through measurements as I would quite like to have sleeping alternatives.

I do think Rapamycin (which I take relatively rarely so the serum effects should be more obvious as I spent quite a bit of time with no Rapamycin to speak of in my system) causes an increase in HR and as a consequence an increase in average arterial pressure, but it is difficult to tell as when I drink (which I am doing once a week at the moment unless there is a party or two) my bp is changed by the effects of vasodilation from the serum acetate.

In essence these are all the issues relating to a complex system which has multiple variables, but with some interlinks.

What I would say about Aktila is that if you are like me and don’t really have tight budgetary limits on testing (remember I do weekly full panel blood tests) it seems a well made and well designed piece of kit. It charges nice and quickly which is good as well. However, I am not yet persuaded that any of the measurements are any use to me. I will, however, continue using it. I would be happy with it if it measured consistent with itself, but with an absolute error compared to something like Omron (which is not perfect anyway). However, at the moment it seems to imply my sleeping blood pressure is higher than when awake apart from between midnight and 2am. I think that is a testing artefact.

It may be that it will pick up big swings in BP, but relatively stable BP is reads as varying a small amount. This is a hard thing to measure and because of the mechanics it may be that it cannot be improved on.

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#86

It happens that I have two Omron sphygmomanometers, an older one I keep by my bed and a newer one I keep by my chair in the sitting room. I have just tested them against each other by putting one on each arm and pressing the button at the same time. The newer run pumps faster so tests faster which could cause a variation. I then swapped the arms and did the same again. The HR was the same, deltas were 1/5, 10,2 which would imply that my right arm has higher pressure slightly and the newer device produces a slightly lower value than the older one. However, things are not that consistent and I will simply assume they are about right.

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#87

Thank for all this color John, very helpful.

#88

It turns out that Omron actually just recently also come out with a wearable wrist / watch type of blood pressure meter.

This one does not estimate, but actually has a physical cuff as part of the wearable that seems to be used for each measurement.

Not sure how often it measures, but from a technological perspective might provide more accurate readings?

It is FDA cleared, so hopefully that says something.

Here is what I wrote on another thread that might not have been seen by people on this thread:

—

A wearable cuff on wrist version below - anyone have any thoughts or even tried it?

HeartGuide is a clinically accurate, wearable blood pressure monitor

HeartGuide is the first clinically-accurate, wearable blood pressure monitor designed in the innovative form of a wristwatch, and is registered with the FDA as a medical device.

The design of HeartGuide involved more than 80 new patents that miniaturize the components for traditional oscillometric measurement, using an inflatable cuff within the watch band to take a blood pressure reading.

Over the course of any normal day, your blood pressure fluctuates. Monitor these fluctuations with clinical accuracy with HeartGuide. Collect, review and store your fluctuations as detailed, usable data, and develop a more thorough understanding of how your lifestyle directly impacts your heart health.

$825 on Amazon right now:

https://www.amazon.com/OMRON-HeartGuide-Pressure-Monitor-Activity/dp/B08N71C66S

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#89

Thats what i refer to above. I may get this. I might even run it to compare to altiila. Today is a drinking day and i have had 3 bottles of lager 2 bottles of bitter and 2 pints of bitter so i will make the decision on this tomorrow or later.

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#90

Nice. If you do, please do let us know, would be very interesting to hear about your experience and comparison!

#91

I have been looking at the options and there seem to be quite a few although what I want is something that will take some measurements whilst asleep.

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#92

Make sure you are clear on what is being measured and when. Different devices do different things. And “HRV” can mean different formulas in different devices (apple is different than Oura).

Oura
Whoop
Fitbit
Apple Watch

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#93

The massive difference is between HRV measured whilst someone is asleep and when they are awake. HRV is higher on waking than in the evening whilst awake.

What I want to measure whilst asleep, however, is blood pressure. The Atilla claims to do this. I like it, but I think it is trying hard to do something really difficult and perhaps getting some useful information, but I don’t know as yet.

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#94

Yeah, I’d like multiple blood pressure measures through sleep and throughout during the day - down via actual (wrist) cuff mechanical measurements (and not light / algorithmic estimation)…

#95

There are I think arguments that an upper arm measurement is better. There are various things available on amazon in the UK. However, they don’t give details on exactly how they work. There are some that are not omron that might work well.

I am going to do further research on this which will probably result in me buying something.

#96

Great. Yeah, I’d prefer having something on my upper arm.
(As otherwise I’d have to begin moving my whoop to my upper arm or something instead…).

#97

There is a medical device that you can get. I was assessed for ASCVD risk a while ago and got it as a part of protocol, had to wear it for 24h, it inflates every 15 minutes or so and records the pressure even while sleeping. It is not really the most comfortable and I woke up two or three times in the night wearing it but all in all it is precise.

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#98

There seem to be quite a few options that do this. I would like something that does measure during sleep Aktila produces measurements and it might get the direction of travel right, but as blood pressure can vary beat by beat let alone minute by minute this is not a simple issue to solve.

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#99

What is the name / manufacturer of this device?

#100

I don’t remember. I had it for one day only. But if you google “Ambulatory Blood Pressure Monitor” you should get some devices.

This is one of the most trusted European manufacturers:

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