I understand the polyol pathway can lead to depletion of NAD+ and formation of AGEs for people with chronically high blood sugar but not metabolically healthy people. Perhaps that is the reason and the people who should be wary.
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I am not myself certain that this is the full story. I don’t have the references to hand, but my understanding is that it is best not to go above 8. Even if you would otherwise be considered to be metabolically health. I think it is because you start metabolising fructose and that moves the metabolism into a hibernation mode.
However, I don’t have the references on this.
I think I have managed to sort that, however, as can be seen from the charts here:
https://twitter.com/johnhemming4mp/status/1650480078424244230
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Looks good, John. My own use of a CGM showed very good glucose control after meals. I got spikes before and during exercise (I guess I get excited). And actually low during sleep. This information is hard to reconcile with my higher HbA1c (5.6-5.8 range consistently). I’m not sure what to make of it. I just keep working on getting the HbA1c lower. Perhaps my red blood cells live longer than normal. My next blood test will tell me if I can get my HbA1c down to <5 (my goal) without extraordinary measures.
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Neo
#97
Do you know what your insulin levels are? Sometimes glucose control comes at the cost of high insulin which I think we want to avoid from a longevity perspective also.
Might be worth considering doing an organ glucose tolerance test (OGTT) - where you’d get a plot over time for both glucose AND insulin after a glucose challenge
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It’s a good question. I have assumed I have high insulin but have no data. My next blood test will include fasting insulin. A glucose tolerance test is the right test but I am already acting on the assumption that I have high insulin…on my way to t2d if I don’t solve it.
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Neo
#99
Looked at it a bit more - part of why it may be costly is that they seem to have taken a rigorous path including a placebo controlled trial.
The data seems quite powerful
Glucose Control clinical efficacy
We conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled nutrition study that demonstrated:
A1C REDUCTION 1
-0.6%
POST PRANDIAL GLUCOSE SPIKE REDUCTION 2
-32.5%
• Glucose Control’s safety
• Glucose Control has a significant statistical and clinical impact on A1C and post-meal blood-glucose spikes
Clinical trial included participants taking metformin, compared to placebo. 1. Regarding the decreased A1C level, there was a reduction in mean A1C compared to placebo. 2. Regarding the Post Prandial Glucose Spike Reduction, the observed reduction in glucose AUC would be expected to increase the time spent within the healthy glucose range (TIR70-180) during continuous glucose monitoring. Increases in TIR70-180 strongly correlate to both reductions in A1C and reduction in risk for complications in T2D patients (see details here).
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Neo
#100
Those who know about microbiome things.
Seems that the effects are achieved in <3 months. Given that, how likely is that doing this for 3 months and then stopping will have remodeled one’s gut biome / added these flora in a sustainable/somewhat permanent way? Where perhaps no further supplementation is needed or perhaps limiting supplementation to say just 2 times a week would be enough to sustain it?
Or would maintaining perhaps be better achieved by coming back and do say one week every month, with three weeks with no supplementation?
Ulf
#101
With vinegar indictions are you get a 20 - 30 % reduction in glucose spike. Isn´t this a better deal, if you factor in cost, than the 32.5 % reduction from that probiotic? Unless there is that possible effect you refer to on remodeling one´s gut biome from the probiotic.
Effect and mechanisms of action of vinegar on glucose metabolism, lipid profile, and body weight | Nutrition Reviews | Oxford Academic (oup.com)
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Neo
#102
I do vinegar especially if I can ahead of any higher carb diet I can’t “control” in a social context.
I wonder if it is healthy to keep regularly lowering one’s ph - but I haven’t had time to look into it. Anyone have an idea about that?
(Also may have a negative impact on teeth in the medium to long run)
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medaura
#103
The probiotic seems priced to part fools from their money. But what’s to stop people from pooling a bit of cash to buy a single bottle, then mailing a handful of pills to each contributor, for them to use to grow more of that probiotic in yoghurt or a sugary medium, in perpetuity? I grow water kefir (well I just killed my culture but that’s another story) so how is planting and growing these magic beans any different? It would take a special kind of idiot to buy those pills on the regular, methinks.
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I like your creativity! Any yoghurt experts here… I wonder if there are any issues that might limit the feasibility of this idea?
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Bicep
#105
Does the label list the strains inside? A mix will shift over time, with some of the strains taking over, others disappearing. But still very easy to decrease cost by a factor of at least 10, maybe way more. Also if it’s a mix some of them may need 110 degrees, others maybe 90 so it may work and it may not.
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Bicep
#107
Wow, pretty good stuff from what I’ve read (Gundry,Davis). I’d love it if it was cheap. So did he do a test of his stool to find out he needs more SCFA? Or any kind of test to see what he already has? I don’t follow him at all. Just because my time is limited, not because he’s boring or anything.
I’ll work on this for awhile, thanks Neo
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Neo
#108
Awesome! Yes, it looks good to me too. (Though I agree that is is pricey).
Dr. Attia did not mention/discuss this in depth (yet) so did not go into to microbiome testing, etc. but hopefully he is doing it in a systematic way and will come back and report more on it in the future.
Bicep
#109
It looks like you are better off taking inulin than you are supplementing the actual Akkermansia muciniphila. Also it’s much much cheaper.
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I lost some of my enthusiasm for inulin after seeing this research…
A type of dietary fiber called inulin, commonly used in health supplements and known to have certain anti-inflammatory properties, can also promote an allergy-related type of inflammation in the lung and gut, and other parts of the body, according to a preclinical study from researchers in the Friedman Center for Nutrition and Inflammation and Jill Roberts Institute for Inflammatory Bowel Disease at Weill Cornell Medicine and in the Boyce Thompson Institute on Cornell’s Ithaca campus.
The study, published Nov. 2 in Nature, found that dietary inulin fiber alters the metabolism of certain gut bacteria, which in turn triggers what scientists call type 2 inflammation in the gut and lungs. This type of inflammation is thought to have evolved in mammals chiefly to defend against parasitic worm (“helminth”) infections, and is also part of normal wound-healing, although its inappropriate activation underlies allergies, asthma and other inflammatory diseases.
There’s a lot to think about here, but, in general, these findings broaden our understanding of the relationship between diet, immunity, and the normally beneficial microorganisms that constitute our microbiota and colonize our bodies."
Dr. David Artis, Study Co-Senior Author, Director, Friedman Center for Nutrition and Inflammation and the Michael Kors Professor of Immunology at Weill Cornell Medicine
“Extrapolation to humans, either in terms of biological relevance or possible interventions, remains limited. However, the study does raise intriguing new insights that will require replication and further research toward mechanisms of action,” he told Medical News Today .
Journal Article (paywalled)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-022-00692-9
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约瑟夫
#111
Bicep
#112
Yes, and the pendulum has half a gram of inulin in each capsule. It’s more than $2 per capsule and the inulin (which is close to free at that rate) does more good than the akkermansia. I suppose there are people that have none, and they should try to get it established, but from what I’ve read it is out there, just not well fed.
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Neo
#113
Anyone know how this could be measured/monitored (outside of a research lab setting)?
