I have considered running NPP because of my constant elbow pain. The thing that has held me back about nandrolone is not the left ventricle hypertrophy, which I understand to be mitigated completely by telmisartin, but rather the potential cognitive impacts. But those are probably more of a risk at higher doses also.
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LukeMV
#47
Those were some weird posts to read before @RapMet deleted them.
Not worth any more of my attention though.
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LukeMV
#48
Yes so the Telmisartan should prevent possible damage by inhibiting the angiotensin pathway, which many anabolics act on, hence some of the potentially harmful effects. Thatās why I keep it in my protocol.
You could go as low as 50-75mg per week of nandrolone for joint/elbow pain. I would really not expect there to be any negative health effects from that, especially if youāre also taking Telmisartan. So many people online have been doing that for very long periods of time.
I think you should choose deca over NPP. I have seen far too many people say that relieves their joint pain more than NPP, for whatever reason.
As far as people saying they get negative cognitive issues on nandrolone on Reddit, I personally havenāt noticed any at all on up to 200mg per week. Maybe all the other stuff I am doing helps too.
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LukeMV
#49
Yup these are the effects I see as well. I also notice a slightly more āfullā look in my muscles.
I think any more than 2iu per day is probably a gamble for long term decades long use.
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That does seem to be the consensus. I guess because I donāt know how I would tolerate it, and given decaās half-life, I thought maybe NPP would be safer for an initial trial. But maybe also a waste of time. I appreciate your input!
LukeMV
#51
I get the logic here and normally, I would agree. I just think at the small doses we are discussing, Iād be surprised if you felt much from it neurologically.
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Iāve heard that Finasteride/ Dutasteride may actually mask having prostate cancer by artificially suppressing PSA levels. Can anyone comment on this?
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Dr.Bart
#53
Iāve heard that Finasteride/ Dutasteride may actually mask having prostate cancer by artificially suppressing PSA levels. Can anyone comment on this?
Sort of the opposite, the high grade cancer is easier to detect in a smaller prostate.
Brad Stanfield explains it well in his video.
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adssx
#55
I read that whole post yelling inside my brain and it was very unpleasant 
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Dr.Bart
#56
It was a quick way to differentiate the text, there is probably a way to change color of the font but I was too lazy for quick post, BTW I can get really loud at work and thatās because a lot of patients can be hard of hearing and I am tired of repeating myself.
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Agetron
#57
Hmmā¦ solid research- thinking about starting on it?
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KarlT
#62
@GregordianKnot does your multivitamin have vitamin C, K, and D in it? You could probably decrease the C, D, and Omega 3 doses.
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Fascinating, thank you for sharing! I take Dutasteride so Iām assuming effects would be similar.
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What is the danger if D is in range? Is there a danger from too much K2?
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adssx
split this topic
#70
A post was merged into an existing topic: Hypertension drugs damage kidneys
Dr.Bart
#71
Vitamin A D E K are fat soluble so they can accumulate unlike vitamin C.
Hypervitaminosis is well known with A and D.
There is just not enough evidence of a benefit to push the vitamin dose up to the threshold for āoptimal rangeā set between VITAMIN D,25-OH,TOTAL 30-100 ng/mL (set by Sonora Quest labs) but getting it over the insufficiency category so say over 20-30 ng/mL sounds reasonable.
When the correlation studies with low vitamin D and multiple allergy conditions started coming out 15-20 years ago, we were very excited initially. Unfortunately most intervention failed to produce any improvements in those conditions which mirrored lack of any improvement in my patients as well that were treated with VD replacement. These days I will still check the VD levels as part of urticaria, immunodeficiency, severe asthma or rhinosinusitis work up but I typically donāt bother treating unless the levels are under 30 ng/mL, otherwise their PCP can decide how to proceed.
Personally with family history of kidney stones I keep my levels of under 50 ng/mL. Apparently over 50 there is some risk developing of hypercalciuria, (over 150 there is a good chance for full on toxicity). The benefit of Vit D beyond clearing the deficiency or insufficiency range of 30 ng/mL is do dubious it just doesnāt meet benefit over risk ratio.
K2 replacement is pretty new, I think we are yet to see what would iatrogenic overdose would look like. I have zero experience with K2 personally, I know the purported benefits and itās in Sports Research Vitamin D3 K2 with 5000iu of Plant-Based D3 & 100mcg of Vitamin K2 as MK-7 which I take 1-2 per week.
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AnUser
#72
FYI: Atorvastatin is superior in terms of side effects for new onset diabetes and cataract surgery:
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My D is around 50 and so I know the correct dosage to keep it these but Iāve been mega dosing K2 as part of a protocol to try to help mitigate my CVD because I didnāt realize there was a danger from dosing too high.
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Dr.Bart
#74
I didnāt say there was all I said there is for other fat soluble vitamins and K2 supplementation is relatively new.
Your risk vs benefit ration is clearly different from mine, so it MAY make sense for you.
These are tough calls we have to make
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