#808

Just keep a short, concise, clear post ready that states your scientific position and gives a link to the clearest scientific backing of it. Then, whenever and whoever posts something that clearly goes contrary to the cholesterol/ApoB science, pull out your post and post it. Done, quick and simple…no attack necessary.

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#809

This is indeed the case.

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#811

I just watched the video that @Bicep posted and it looked perfectly scientific to me. First, he’s not an MD and doesn’t claim to be. He’s a PHD and a neuroscientist. He’s not a lipidologist but what he said didn’t contradict any lipidologist that I’ve watched. Heart disease is not caused by high LDL-C alone, you have to also consider other factors. Lipidologists agree with that. The lean mass hyper-responders, keto and low carb diet are just mentioned in passing at the end. The video wasn’t about that. I found the video useful and informative - and scientific. I think just hearing “high LDL-C can be OK” is a trigger point for @AnUser and @Virilius .

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#812

Okay… Do I really have to watch and debunk this video? That’s what I was thinking.

Let me scroll down and see the comments a bit.

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So the top comment is someone with a recent LDL of 584 and has “never been this healthy”.

I’ll skip on that.

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#813

You can’t feel high cholesterol. He can feel healthy up until he dies from a blocked artery. Sad.

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#814

If you take cardiology advice from a neuroscientist you are a …

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#815

Dr. Alo completely destroys the “absolute risk” quacks.

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#816

It all makes sense now, @SouthHill

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Happy to engage again if you don’t dodge my question what I explicitly lack doubt for. I need answers like that to avoid quack behavior if I answer.

What a bunch of horseshit, you are on a low carb diet, and you hope that you are right.

#817

@SouthHill
I think we should respect your decision to eat low carb/keto since you are experiencing some benefits.

On the other side, we would be remiss in not pointing out the known, undiscussed (by real science) hazards of high LDLC-ApoB.

I remember I listened to a stemtalk podcast with Dom D’Agostino and Ken Ford, two staunch followers and supporters of Keto diet. At one point, they discussed the issue of hi cholesterol in LMHR (they both are).
Their conclusion struck me as a ton of bricks, absolutely objective and worthy of two guys who are accustomed to reason according to logic and scientific evidence:

There is no free ride

They just acknowledged the fact that sometimes all the healthspan benefits (they experienced) come with some big detriment attached.

Also, there is no certainty that, over a long time horizon, hi Apob = CV events. There is no certainty but there is a significantly high level of probability.

So, everyone is free to gamble on their own health and longevity.

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#818

Such a weird discussion, totally unsubstantial, just posturing and meta statements, not at all relating to any science.

Not even once was a claim made i.e that apoB doesn’t have a real causal effect with a link to a study. I understand how low carb zealots can act now though.

When people do not have any evidence or science, they just start a meta discussion and try to go around in circles, faking like anything real actually happened.

#819

It is extremely unpleasant to read this conversation. @AnUser: you should start a new thread titled “Why lower is better for ApoB & LDL,” explaining the reasoning step by step and citing sources. Then, whenever someone challenges this view, you could just answer, “For new users reading us, this is incorrect, and I explained it here in detail:” with a link to that thread.

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#820

Well thanks for that. Actually these days I’m not very low carb, maybe I’m eating around 100g of carbs per day, some days more. I did experience very significant benefits from going low carb, most of which have stayed with me now that I’m “moderate” carb. And perhaps I am in a small minority here, but I just might trade some lifespan for long term gains in healthspan. I do worry about ApoB and I am considering potential pharmaceutical treatments. There does seem to be some good new drugs on the horizon.

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#821

I was not aware that I was advocating for any diet. Nor am I advocating that ApoB is not causal in CVD. It is my understanding that the scientific consensus is that the presence of ApoB is necessary but not sufficient to cause CVD. I am 100% on board with that. I’m also interested in how to prevent CVD in the presence of ApoB; seems like an important idea.

The main point of my recent comments were meant to basically be “Hey, be nice.” I can get upset when I see rudeness and contempt for other members who are good contributors on this great forum. That can make me be a bit rude too if I haven’t taken my l-theanine. My bad.

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#822

Does l-Theanine really work? I want to try it to manage some emotional ups that affect my BP. Do you take it at nite or AM? And what’s the dose?

#823

Assuming you have genetically perfect blood cell walls that NEVER let apoB particles through, you theoretically can get away with having high cholesterol values. In practice though, the combination of average cell walls and average apoB count will lead to plaque formation in nearly all cases.
I’m not aware of medication that causes less permitability of cells walls so for everyone who is not a genetic outlier (which the people watching the video are not), changing diet and taking medication is still required.

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#824

I originally tried it to help with sleep, but I didn’t feel any benefits. It stayed on my shelf for a while but after I realized that almost every day starting around 3:00 p.m. I get a bit “on-edge” and just sort of feel a malaise-type feeling, I tried taking it at that time. And I felt that it smoothed over my feeling of discomfort a bit. So now I take it episodically. Sometimes I’ll take 200mg (one Pure Encapsidations pill) with breakfast to tamp down any a.m. nerves if I’m feeling stressed. But usually I’ll take 400mg in the afternoon if I start to feel the malaise and it almost always chills me out a bit.

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#825

I think the issue with epithelial cells is senescence, if you can reduce the senescence then you don’t have to worry that much about LDL-C. However, I also think if LDL-C is high something else is probably going wrong.

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#826

As mentioned in Attia’s book, even young children have evidence of plaque formation. Senescent cells can excerberate the problem but even without any, some apoB particles can pass through cell walls in the vast majority of people. Given high enough concentrations of them, eventually the body won’t be able to clear them out anymore.

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#827

It would be nice if there were some original citations on this.

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#828

Really? All that fuss and you didn’t even watch it? Actually the first time over I just listened to it while making breakfast and missed that the studies are at the top of his screen and could be easily found with a search, but if you won’t watch the video I’m not going to look them up. Thanks to @ng0rge for fixing my mistake on his credentials.

I’ve got a center pivot irrigation system that went wheels up in the flood this spring that we have been disassembling and reassembling since it’s not covered by insurance. Huge job for us simple unvaccinated factory farmers and I will be gone all day again. Much higher chance I will die of high voltage 3 phase current this week than any other cause.

I didn’t mean to make anybody’s head explode. Just thought I’d poke the nest again before I run.

Later,

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