Bicep
#779
Do they ever compare low-carb/keto with exercise against all the drugs and eating like a pig?
Why not regular diet + exercise + drugs vs keto + exercise?
Bicep
#781
If you watch the video you will see that LDL is an important part of the immune system and improves longevity for old people. Also you don’t get sick, which improves quality of life.
1 Like
There was a recent study showing an absolute 5% acm risk reducation with high intensity statins in old people. These results trump any and all mechanistic speculation about LDL-C’s potential role in human health.
Afaik there isn’t even an uptick in death by infections in older adults in the clinical trials, so even for those with a weakened immune system, statins are recommended.
Besides, there are quite a lot of studies showing a benefit of carbs for your immune system.
Immunobiology of Carbohydrates: Implications for Novel Vaccine and Adjuvant Design Against Infectious Diseases - PMC (nih.gov)
It is therefore kind of hypocritical of you to criticize medications that suppress apoB/LDL-C while at the same time promoting a diet that deprives the body of an important nutrient. Particulary because keto diets have never been proven to work in mice nor humans for reducing acm/increasing lifespan.
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Davin8r
#783
This is the problem using popular books and YouTube videos as primary sources of information rather than published, peer-reviewed scientific studies. It’s very easy to be misled, and then very hard to admit one has been misled.
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Bicep
#786
This is an MD discussing research, though in this case I will admit the papers are not in the discussion under the video. It’s a talk he gave and there is no hope of him making anything off of it so he probably just didn’t bother.
For the record I am fine with people using statins, I think the pleiotropic benefits alone may be worth it for some (not many). I think taking 3 different drugs to get your cholesterol down to zero is a little out there, but no objection. My own doctor does it and I like him very much. I just want people to see that there is another avenue out there that they may not ever hear about. I’m watching my numbers closely and will honestly report how it goes.
Someone with a CAC of 300 on a keto diet who doesn’t believe in the detrimental effects of high LDL-C will naturally disappear with time 
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AnUser
#789
It’s annoying because cholesterol denialists, conspiracy theorists, and anti-vaxxers, is self-selected for narcissism so you’re not going to stop hearing from them or have to listen to them give permission for everyone else. They know better than the consensus of the doctors, scientists, and experts, after all.
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But hey, they watched a video from someone claiming to be a doctor. Isn’t that enough proof? Let’s disregard all the other millions of doctors who disagree with them though.
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There’s plenty of room here for different viewpoints regarding the relative importance of LDL level vs. other factors in cardiovascular health. Shouting down opinions that go against one’s viewpoint doesn’t put your arguments in a good light.
And yeah, there’s opinions that millions of doctors hold that are wrong, for sure. Our job is to seek out the truth ourselves. Otherwise, why use our brain? Just ask a doctor what to do, what could go wrong?
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There is room for discussion regarding LDL-C targets depending on risk factors. But there is no room for discussion when it comes to someone with a positive CAC score disregarding it altogether and hopping on a high saturated fat keto diet.
Some people use words like “facts” too loosely. If you guys want to be the ApoB police on this forum, then you’re going to get some push back now and then, because your attacks just make you look bad. There is such a weird urgency to your need to always think you have the right answer - your lack of doubt exposes your dogmatism that limits your ability to see potentially more optimal solutions. But that’s your right.
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mccoy
#795
The last time I saw it, though, those opinions go against all preponderance of scientific evidence, not just against individual viewpoints in this forum.
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ng0rge
#796
I have to post this again because it’s so appropriate
@AnUser and @Virilius ready to take on all challengers!
But the biggest problem here for both of them is Ad Hominem attacks. Repeating The 300 CAC score and the charge of Anti-Vaxxer have nothing at all to do with the validity of his argument. It’s just meant to discredit him. Like talking about how a rape victim was dressed.
And this is a little ironic.
@AnUser must have lost his bible.
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240709-seven-ways-to-spot-a-bad-argument
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Then why can’t people have humility and class while offering skepticism. Cardiovascular health is not a black and white arena, obviously, as we can talk about it forever and ever and ever seemingly.
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This shows your lack of class bro. As usual.
You telling @RapAdmin to ban someone when you are the king flamer on here? You spew your nasty vitriolic highly person attacks on here ad nauseam and you think someone else is the problem? Why do you take things so personally?
Lack of doubt: Simply when you believe what you are saying couldn’t possibly be wrong. We should all have humility with our opinions, because we could be wrong. Simple as that.
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There are some theories that we should simply accept as fact because they have been proven to work over and over again. Examples of this are relativity and high apoB being causal for ASCVD.
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I hear you. I accept many theories as a fact. However I don’t see a need to make everyone else in the world believe what I believe is an established fact. Because I could be wrong. This forum should be an exchange of ideas, not an exercise in enforcing the orthodoxy. We both know that what was “established fact” in the past turned out to not be the case as the science got better.
But hey, now I seem to be derailing things so I’ll head off to the treadmill and get some chill time.
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If something passes the test of time, it is solid enough. We can’t completely deny the possibility that it is actually little magic fairies who cause plaque buildup and that statins work to reduce acm because they intoxicate the fairies. But obviously statins still work regardless of their mechanism.
I hope you’re right.
It just seems you are over-confident with your opinions and go on the attack right away. Nothing on this forum rates that kind of response. It’s just a bunch of folks airing out their ideas. In life I tend to try to keep the peace too much and resolve conflicts, that’s something I should work on.
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