#122

On Internet I didn’t find the protocols per area and the manual I received from one seller (took a lot of insisting but one sent it to me) is - besides in bad English - extremely basic (as are those from the other appliances I bought) (basically, it said settings for cheek and for body; I assume they mean face with cheek … the one RadAdm uploaded is actually slightly better)

Also I understand they use anesthesia here (in video’s online and Bryan J. mostly cold air blower but not included in the machine- i could use icepacks though but that would prolong time of treatments if i have to hold icepack 5 minutes against each spot ) so am wondering if I would be able to do it myself and without anesthesia and just in general, not being a professional, I wonder whether it would not be wise to have one treatment done by professional so I can take note of all the steps and information I get , without experimenting myself :sweat_smile:… on the other hand am sure it is not difficult, and you are right in that the first treatment may not even bring much (they seem to insist to at least 3 treatments, even more in the first year - only the ‘cheap’ cost estimate I got did not sell this in a package but of course if you need 3 or more in the end it gets even more costly. I think it is my lack of experience that may be talking…did someone else here already did the treatment and may be able to share some info? thanks a lot

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#123

did you have a treatment in the end?

#124

you can ask the seller what would be exact costs of customs and vat etc to your door; if you ask shipping DDP (delivery duty paid) you dont get surprise afterwards, so I prefer this… but maybe where you are it might be less, no clue…

they sustain it would be slightly cheaper if you take care of it yourself but got some unpleasant experiences in past (plus also read some in alibaba reviews) so I prefer paying up front and have no surprises later…

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#125

It’s very important to find out if it’s ablative or non-ablative. I assume that it’s non-ablative as it’s less damaging to skin especially if used by non-professionals.

#126

Not yet. The prices in Los Angeles are ridiculous. I’ve found a provider out of state so I’m just weighing up whether or not to pull the trigger on it.

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#127

I understood from info on the net that it is either ablative or not, depending on the settings you put
The picture below is from the Tixel Spain website : the longer the contact , the more ablative

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I also did seem to understand from what I read so far that, while the Ali ‘ ones only have one tip ( 1 cm2) , at least according to the manuals I have seen, the “original “ would have a small and a bigger surface ( a small for eye surfaces and bigger for rest of face … to speed up treatment)

#128

I’ve had good results with a routine of tretinoin, AHA/BHA, sunscreen and a cleanser. At least I don’t hate myself when looking into the mirror.

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#129

It’s time to become a glower.

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Six boosters later, tretinoin, finasteride, statins, debunking russian trolls, and whey protein powder.
What else?

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#130

L-citrulline, tadalafil and a diet high in nitrates for veinmaxxing. Women love those.

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#131

b84

On my way to Rapa Nui to pick up some Rapamycin.

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#132

She is selling a competing product and I don’t understand what the problem is.
I don’t want to look old.

There’s always going to be something negative said of something - statins, ezetimibe, PCSK9i, finasteride, SGLT2i, mTORi.

Not doing anything is highly negative.

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#133

If we don’t have any products available in 60 years that can restore stem cells, we are screwed anyway, hence there is no point delaying tretinoin treatment.

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#134

I just don’t believe ‘high impact negative’ side effects that much anymore, based on my experience in researching things.

If someone doesn’t do something because they hear one of those stories, well it’s not going to go well.

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#135

We’re all just making our best guess, but I personally would avoid anything that speeds up the cell cycle.

We know that the cell cycle is an extremely stressful, damage prone process. Like you said, maybe the short-term boost makes this a good idea in older individuals (similar to growth hormone for example), but long term I could see it backfiring.

No thanks tretinoin, I’ll stick with CE ferulic.

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#136

With all the choices we have regarding to longevity therapeutics, the choices are not binary. Everyone can manage dosing levels and schedules to mitigate risk. Of course everyone will choose their own risk/reward trade-off as they decide their course of action.

Can we continuously push through skin renewal without eliciting exhaustion?

As I said before, due to its protective function and need for constant renewal, the epidermis has an extensive stem cell pool that can undergo many cell duplications and yield plenty of new cells throughout our lifetime.

However, stem cells, like other types of cells, also age. Often through certain DNA modifications or epigenetic changes. Besides, we know that even skin stem cells (and not only those in less proliferative organs) can reach exhaustion.

After many divisions (duplications), they may not self-renew: they differentiate and die. Or enter a state of senescence, where they cannot divide anymore.

Indeed, there is proof that in the average human (who does not apply retinol regularly), the number of cutaneous stem cells diminishes with age: the older you get biologically, the less potential for self-renewal and wound healing your skin has.

There is the possibility that, eventually, the uninterrupted use of retinol for extended periods (aka, every day for many years) may lead to significant skin stem cell aging and exhaustion.

That would sooner or later precipitate a cutaneous decline. And compromise the skin barrier function and beauty. Even its ability to heal wounds.

Molecular mechanisms of retinoid actions in the skin. GJ Fisher and JJ Voorhees, FASEB J, 1996; 10(9): 1002-13.

Skin and its regenerative powers: an alliance between stem cells and their niche. KA Uy Gonzales and E Fuchs, Dev Cell, 2017; 43(4): 387-401.

Stem cell aging: mechanisms, regulators and therapeutic opportunities. J Oh et al., Nat Med, 2014; 20(8):870-80.

When stem cells grow old: phenotypes and mechanisms of stem cell aging. MB Schultz and DA Sinclair. Development, 2016; 143(1): 3-14.

#137

I often hear dermatologists say that, for skin anti-aging purposes, once you introduce retinol (or other retinoids) into your skincare routine, you should ideally apply it every day. Here I discuss my viewpoint on why that might not be optimal,

Neither Maria or Allesandra are expert dermatologists, meaning those who have extremely deep knowledge about this, I would rather ask one of them what they think about this since I don’t know anything about this topic.

#138

I started peeling/flaking a lot so now I get it.

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#139

Encourage your skin to adapt gradually. Start with a minimal amount—about the size of a pea—for your face. Begin by using it once or twice a week for several weeks, then gradually increase to three times a week for a period, and eventually incorporate it into your daily routine.
I’ve personally trained also my delicate eye area and later my neck to tolerate daily tretinoin without experiencing peeling, redness, or flaking. It took approximately six months for my eyes and nearly a year for my neck to adjust. I’ve been using tretinoin successfully for over a decade (maybe almost two) without the need for moisturizers.
Remember, avoid applying it immediately after washing your face. Allow at least 15 minutes for reduced irritation, especially in the initial stages.

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#140

It makes it feel like it’s working, like I am turning into Dr. Curt Connors. Bro wanted to get his limb back but got a bunch of pleiotropic effects.

#141

Update : so I had the treatment this morning ; my impression and first findings so far:

They put anesthaetic cream before treatment ( Emla) and I have to say am not sure if I could do without : while eyes were surprisingly fine and few “shots” I didn’t even notice, the neck area was still painful despite the anaesthetic and I think if I would have to do it myself I would most likely drag it out … or maybe not do it ( at the moment of treatment I thought I won’t be able to support this doing to myself :sweat_smile:) , or do it less perfect …

Btw : I noticed a slight burning smell once the treatment began (Doctor called it a” barcecue “ smell but to be honest it wasn’t that good ) but so that seems to be normal.

I told the doctor that I read that some only use cold air and / or whether I could do without emla but she answered “it is only possible when doing the non-ablative treatment, to have substances more easily enter the skin. “

The doctor said she used the penultimate highest setting for my face ( and that she only uses the highest one for male which would have thicker skin in face)

She used a smaller tip for my eye zone to be able to go just next to the eye: when I asked her about that she quickly showed it to me and it seemed a 1cm2 tip so it might be the sole tip that the Ali versions have ( at least, upon my questions to distributors I got one clear reply stating that the size of the tip was the same ( 1 cm2) for the machine with 2 ( face - body ) handles but that their settings - depth and time of contact with skin - were different … )

I am still red as a tomato :tomato: and my skin feels like cardboard but that would be normal so let’s see.( had to get groceries just afterwards and got some funny looks - putting on sunglasses and /or mask was bothering). FWIW She told that in her experience, the worse the reaction, the better the production ( not sure if this was just to reassure me )

I got a tiny product (which gave great relief) to put on each half hour , during 5 hours ( which i however finished in two times and thus in one hour already, as my skin absorbed enormously ; but upon calling I was told I now have to wait without putting anything and later today I can start putting on the cream I was given, 3 times a day - once I will finish that cream I can use my own. The crème I got to use the next days contains “ growth factors” and was included in price ( posted above).

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No exercise for 5 days , no sauna or red light or self tan for at least 7 days ( was supposed about the red light but she said : “better to let the skin heal itself” ?) and of course sun protection 50+ always … they stop the treatment here in May until October because of the intense sunshine.

Can wash my face as of tomorrow and put on make : up ( but will try to avoid if I can )

She said I should have significant results with one session as my skin was good (must be genetic since am no good at, nor constant in, skin care ) AND while she said it

was great to repeat whenever I wanted to, she rather advised me to do an Ultherapy session (MFI micro-focused ultrasound , price 1500 euros :grimacing: would last a 1,5 year ) for sagging skin and complement with some rádiesse ( I never had any treatment done in my face besides 1 Indiba so of course there is margin to improve and I have no clue about the things she mentioned . Looking it up now Ultherapy seems like a new treatment so of course expensive.

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