Regarding Accutaine, I agree with medaura. Roche has had thousands of lawsuits from the bad side effects (seems most were dismissed). My wife took it for a couple of months many years ago and has had dry eye syndrome ever since. I’d stay away from it…

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Yes, totally understand, but we are not talking full acne dose which is 1 mg/kg daily for few months. This is intermittent (twice weekly 0,5 mg/kg) dosing. I won’t try it any time soon. I will research some more and decide later. If I find anything of interest pro or con I will post it here.

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It is a mixed bag. I think it is still worth considering. Maybe I can get a prescription and try it for few months and decide on the effect. I am not sure about doing it long term. Maybe like a 12 week course once a year? Isotretinoin is known to induce autophagy so maybe it might be beneficial in this regard as well. Seems that indirectly via upregulation of the expression of of the transcription factor p53 down regulates mTORC1. It is not looking that bad after all. I always thought that isotretinoin is a dangerous drug, but micro dosing, cycling and intermittent dosing might be possible and positive for skin aging.

(10-20 mg three times a week for 2 months, group A)
All patients treated with oral isotretinoin noted improvement in wrinkles, thickness and color of the skin, size of pores, skin elasticity, tone, and reduction in pigmented lesions and mottled hyperpigmentation. A statistically significant difference was found in the improvement of group A. Using minimal amounts of this drug, the side effects were practically negligible.

There was an improvement in the overall appearance of the skin, regarding texture, wrinkles depth and skintone. Skin thickness, suppleness, and pore size improved. Both the number of collagen fibers and the density of elastic fibers increased in the statistically significant manner. Elastosis decreased, the thickness of the epidermis increased, and the stratum corneum diminished. Reduction of pigmented lesions and uneven hyperpigmentation was detected. With low-dose isotretinoin, side effects were absent or negligible, limited to minimal lip dryness.

https://apcz.umk.pl/JEHS/article/view/41331

Clinically, patients, as well as the researching and the assessor physicians, noticed improvement in skin quality. One patient presented severe solar elastosis, 11 manifested the moderate form, while 8 presented the discreet type. According to histological analysis, 65% of the patients revealed alteration in the distribution and thickness of the elastic fibers, which can be interpreted as a histological improvement, while 60% showed an increase in collagen density. We observed an increase in collagen density, from 51.2% to 57.4%, (p=0.004). At the end of the 12-week follow-up period, this density decreased to 54.7% (p=0.050). There was an increase in the density of elastic fibers, from 26.5% to 31.3%, (p=0.02), which had dropped to 27.5% at the end of the 12-week follow-up period.

Clinical evaluation showed slight improvement; profilometry, corneometer and skin elasticity tests presented significant difference in pre/post values (P = 0.001 to 0.028), but no differences between A/B. Histological findings and p53 expression were comparable between groups before treatment (P > 0.1); microscopic analysis showed no differences between groups for most variables, after treatment. Slight but significant difference between A/B for p53 with major reduction post isotretinoin [0.66+/-0.31 vs. 0.94+/-0.34 respectively (P = 0.04) was observed. There were minor side effects and no significant laboratory test alterations. We concluded that no significant clinical, microscopic changes but p53 epidermal expression reduction were observed. The role of ultra-violet induced p53 mutation in skin carcinogenesis reinforces retinoids chemoprevention. Oral isotretinoin seemed safe but not effective to treat photoaging. Caution should be considered for women prone to pregnancy. Further controlled studies are necessary.

This is a good view on pros and cons of a dermatologist. It might not be better than topical tretinoin with less worrying about systemic effects. The benefits might be greater in people with really oily skin as systemic isotretinoin stops oil production.

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Apologies if this is already addressed in the links as I didn’t follow them —- but did they run a control only against placebo or also against topical tret?

Basically I’m not seeing any evidence that systemic is better than topical.

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Yes, they run it against placebo and against topical.
Basically there is no benefit over topical. The only benefit would be a slightly less oily skin for excessively oily skin type, but studies don’t support the benefit over risks I guess.

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Hi @arugula , do you have a source for this? I have tried googling to no avail. Wondering if I only have a year left to use my Microneedling pen?!

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I noticed it on my skin (69 yo). Micro needling only creates problems. I don’t use it anymore. Mesotherapy though works just right for keeping skin plump and wrinkle free.

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Thanks for sharing Lara, I’ll have to keep a close eye on this… I’ve only done a few treatments as I find the pain really off-putting (numbing cream just adds another hour onto the treatment time, and sometimes my skin reacts to it). Nonetheless, I was planning to stick with it. But this is scary!

I would really like to know what sort of age is the cut off for Microneedling. I’ll keep an eye out for any papers…

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For meso, I never use lidocain cream. Meso is painless - needle is too thin and short to create any damage. There’s no even bleeding to make it painful. If you do it on yourself you’ll know where to stop to avoid pain. It’s a different story if a technician does the procedure.

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May be micro infusions will work better for your dry skin. They are totally painless.

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Thanks Lara, I’ll look into these as well.

@LaraPo have you ever tried this delivery system. Looks similar to to Aquagold – A.S.A.P. INC
seems that you can do personalized meso-cocktail of different things and supposedly it is painless. Delivers to the depth of 0,6 mm.

@LaraPo sorry for all the questions. Is CYTOCARE 532 a skin booster or filler (like what people have injected into their lips etc)? I keep reading conflicting things. Thanks !

It’s a skin booster, not a filler.

I tried this delivery system with a different product. Works well, good results, easy to apply.

This is really interesting… it seems like this is a type of device that anyone could use at home, and that is replacing the syringe delivery approach of meso therapy, and that you could (in theory) use with any of the mesotherapy solutions…

But instead of selling the injection system by itself, they are bundling it with the solution. Seems what you really want is to just by the injection systems by themselves and use whatever solution you want… is there something like this injection system that is not tied / bundled with the solution?

AQUAGOLD® fine touch™ is a disposable, single-use microchannel microinjector sold only to medical professionals. The key is in the technology: AQUAGOLD® fine touch™ features its patented Microchannel Technology™ that delivers onto the skin, rather than strictly puncturing or wounding the skin with solid needles as typical microneedling devices (and counterfeit AQUAGOLD® devices) do.

Some images of it being used:

Real Self Rating of this Proceedure:

https://www.realself.com/nonsurgical/aquagold

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It seems some people are selling the “micro infusion facial stamp” without the solution… there has to be a bulk price somewhere as these are use once types of products it seems:

This Singapore site seems to be the cheapest, 1 Singapore dollar equals $0.75 US, so the 25 SGD (Singapore dollars) is equal to about $18.00 US.

Ah… perhaps these types of micro needling devices are multi-use devices:

About the needles

There are many types of the micro channeling infusion bottles in the market. Some are only 0.3mm which is too short and made with stainless steel which are not reusable and does not give good results as the needle are not as hard as the gold plated ones that we are selling. Our 24K Gold plated needles are reusable because it does not rust or retain bacteria easily so it is much safer to use. Our device is 0.6mm long which are more effective for treatments.

and $3.00 from Alibaba / China: Hydra Needle Stamp Micro Needle

Microinfusion rollers:

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@LaraPo what do you think of these devices and how would they compare to your mesotherapy syringe approach.

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That system imo is better for young skin as monthly maintenance. It’s convenient because it’s a multi-needle system that covers a big area and has a preset depth. Anybody without any training can easily do it. If I used it at my age, I would need to do it every week, which is costly and time consuming. I use Cytocare 532 that has the highest percentage of hyaluronic acid designed for mature skin, it can be deposited deeper, 2-4mm, and lasts longer.

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It looks like Oliver Zolman has moved to the US full time to support his primary client (he’s showing up in a lot of the videos now).

Hey, he’s hit the jackpot with a client who with no-limits on spending for medical help (yes, I imagine he feels a little bit like some of the startup founders in the Silicon Valley after getting a large Series A round).

I guess most people would move countries for that.

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