MAC
#21
Agreed, especially it’s design and metrics are done by THE very best people studying AD, so they know what to look for re early signs.
I wonder if something like this new product from one of the Google spinouts would provide for better tracking of the aging cognitive phenotype (with, and without, rapamycin)? I also wonder if there is a sleep phenotype that maps to people’s age - and if we could measure whether our sleep profile is that of an older or younger person. I hope to see this figured out and applied clinically (or via devices) one day…
This Startup Wants to Get in Your Ears and Watch Your Brain
Born from Alphabet’s “moonshot” division, NextSense aims to sell earbuds that can collect heaps of neural data—and uncover the mysteries of gray matter.
After acting as the scanner-in-chief for the company that invented the eFit, Borodin is now the lead ear spelunker for NextSense, which was born at Google and spun out of Alphabet’s X division. The startup’s focus is brain health—improving sleep, helping patients with epilepsy, and eventually enriching the lives of people with a range of mental conditions. The idea is to use its earbuds to capture an electroencephalogram, a standard tool for assessing brain activity. Just as an ECG tracks the fibrillations of the heart, an EEG is used to diagnose anomalies in brain activity. While some smart watches—Apple, Samsung, Fitbit—offer versions of an ECG and aim to spy on your sleep, collecting neural data has mostly been a can’t-try-this-at-home activity. Until now.
… Levey told Berent that if he could eventually match the quality of a true EEG, he’d be on to something—a sort of Apple Watch for the brain.
In June 2020, Berent learned that X would stop funding the project. So he spun out an independent company. He worked out a deal where X got a stake in the new firm in exchange for the intellectual property. Five people made the jump from X to the startup, including its medical director. The team hired a new head of product who had worked on the Apple Watch. Now called NextSense and touting itself as a platform for brain-health monitoring, the company got $5.3 million in funding…
NextSense has struck up partnerships with universities and drug companies to explore the medical uses of its earbuds. A multinational pharmaceutical firm called Otsuka hopes to use NextSense’s earbuds to assess the efficacy of medication, not only for epilepsy but for depression and other mental health issues.
Full Article…
Presentations by Jonathan Berent, the President of NextSense:
and
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It seems groups are developing brain aging biomarkers and measures, at least for use in research labs. I hope these become widely available in clinical applications at reasonable prices.
MAC
#24
Looks like they are still a ways off, tremendous variation. Does the variation in “brain age” in the 20yr old cohort (ie not much brain aging yet) seem anywhere real?
Like in the periphery and blood DNA, different regions of brain tissue have different aging signatures, it’s quite complicated, and conventional MRI captures “structural” stuff, and cannot tell you the state of neuronal decay in say the hippocampus (other than volume, which can already be easily done).
If these tools offer a better (sensitivity, specificity, cost) vs other tools at sniffing out earlier some prodromal phase neurological diseases (eg AD), then could be of significant value.
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RPS
#25
It could be real.
I had a cousin, mathematical genius (1st class degree from Cambridge), but new nothing about health and wellness - burnt the candle from both ends. If he “bothered” with sleep it would only be for 2 - 3 hours. Boozed a fair bit as well. Dropped dead before his 25th birthday. Autopsy said he had the organs of a 70 year old - it could only be put down to lack of sleep which meant no chance for recuperation so I presume that meant massively accelerated ageing.
With the way kids these days spend most of their time at uni partying it doesn’t surprise me that the 20y.o. have big brain ageing. Hopefully they reverse it somewhat once they mature into sensible adults.
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Another approach to measuring Brain Age… seems like many people are working on this from different angles:
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Another new option coming:
David
#28
Has anyone read any of Dr. Dale Bredsens books? I did listen to a condensed version on audio that was interesting due to its multidisciplinary approach - diet, sleep, exercise, supplements, hormone replacement and cognitive exercises from what I remember.
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MAC
#29
Yes I’ve followed him and read much of his stuff. He’s focused on AD prevention. It’s pretty much a default background whole system intervention for me, and then I’ve layered on additional things. My FMD is trained in his protocol.
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This is interesting on the topic of dementia, but I’d like to see something similar that focuses, or at least allows measurements, on the cognitive abilities age 30 to 60:
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tongMD
#31
I’ve read his papers. Here’s my general impression.
Some are in open access predatory journals. Sometimes I can find a clear financial conflict that was not disclosed in his case series papers. Pretty big red flags from those two alone.
There wasn’t any data on any non-responders or inclusion/exclusion criteria, so I found it not very helpful in any sort of real assessment that can be reproducible.
Ultimately, I find it unconvincing that he has any sort of true secret sauce beyond what is already recommended. He recommends antioxidants like vitamin C and vitamin E. Doesn’t seem to make sense when you can get it easily via diet.
He also recommends resveratrol for SIRT1 which does not seem reproducible and was one of the high-profile failures of the NIH NIA ITP. Resveratrol I find at best, limited evidence for cardiac - not brain.
AFAIK, he doesn’t even mention the phospholipid form of DHA for APOE4 when he claims “the End of Alzheimer’s”.
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I don’t take tests like the one mentioned, because I am already doing the most studied interventions to stop it from happening in the first place.
I also do not dismiss Maveric78’s opinion on L-theanine improving his chess rating.
The markers I use for myself are my ability to solve crossword puzzles and sudoku.
The crossword puzzles are an indicator to me of how well I can access and remember data stored in my mind.
On the other hand, Sudoku indicates how well my mind is focusing.
Most people here are acutely aware of how well their minds are working.
tongMD
#33
I don’t mean to be dismissive. I’m pointing out the scientific limitations - which scientists generally do in their research - or at least should be doing. And even then, there’s a reproducibility crisis in science, particularly for psychology/dementia/Alzheimer’s research. So we should be even more vigilant than the average scientist. Scientists are not immune to fallacious and magical thinking.
The main issue is the training effect that is paradigm specific for these types of indicators, not necessarily an indicator for what is being claimed. If one tried playing Xiangqi (Chinese chess) for example, would the allegedly improved chess skill as tested by Elo transfer over to improved Elo scores on Xiangqi? Probably not. If you have allegedly improved crossword and sudoku skills, would it transfer over to something you haven’t played before such as Scrabble and Catan (if you haven’t)? Probably not.
The next issue I have - can one say for sure it’s not a placebo effect? One could be more confident and perform better. The easiest way is to blind yourself and do it over and over until we can be certain, especially when it comes to a pill.
I found a lot of people who are into wine tasting and love expensive red wines, but in a blinded taste test - they ended up liking the cheapest one! I’m not saying we should dismiss “wine tasting” or criticize how people choose to spend their money, but rather the limitations of the claim “expensive red wines taste the best” should be highlighted. There isn’t enough of that going on. I’m not saying I wouldn’t consider the claim. In fact, I’ve considered your claim on Lithium more in-depth, after more reading.
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related to keeping the brain healthy…
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I’m not sure that transfer is that relevant. If you play a game consistently you will improve and eventually plateau (with some small day to day variance). Assuming consistent practice over time any cognitive degradation should then be reflected in your play?
It’s a crude metric but not a useless one.
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tongMD
#36
Perhaps for a grandmaster or a particularly advanced player. I have had plenty of day-to-day variance in playing both chess and Chinese chess that I couldn’t easily point to some factor like sleep. And even then some professionals could see a benefit from anxiety reduction. There are plenty of musicians, golf players, and professional video game players that dope via beta blockers to reduce anxiety while playing. It’s literally even used for test anxiety. But these test takers didn’t suddenly become “smarter”, nor is there any evidence to say it prevents the onset of dementia.
If you have significant cognitive degradation with say mild cognitive impairment - significant changes above day-to-day variance could be sensitive. But that’s not the claim here. Or at least it doesn’t seem like you’re trying to screen for MCI.
It’s somewhat similar to IQ tests that were not initially designed for the cognitive testing it’s frequently used for today. They were designed to screen for the mentally challenged, not meant to go the other way around. One of the most common misunderstandings of an IQ test is that scores are units of measurement like grams or liters. A big difference in say IQ tests test-retests vs Elo score fluctuations is that standard error is much higher for higher IQ scores than for lower IQ scores.
This is most easily identified in this simplified example - old politicians claiming they are “geniuses” because they passed a MoCA test with their physician certifying a “perfect score” that screens for cognitive impairment and dementia.
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Another new method / approach to tracking brain function / cognitive health / brain aging:
The company: https://www.brainkey.ai
Jay
#38
I read the article and came across phrases like “egg consumption is linked to or egg consumption is associated with.” I checked all of the highlighted links to other articles and they all were articles written for NutritionFacts.org. I would have preferred links to actual research versus other articles. I suppose Michael Gregor is a reasonably trustworthy source and he is certainly well-known in the health field, but the article should show me where the information came from. Below the end of the article there was reference to “The consumption of eggs is associated with: high cholesterol, heart disease, diabetes, and food poisoning.” Well, from my doctor’s reports and my blood tests I’ve never been affected by higher cholesterol, heart disease, or diabetes from eating eggs. And, food poisoning? Well, if you don’t cook them I suppose that could happen. What I’m saying is that I will probably not be reading from the NutritionFacts.org site for health information. It strikes me as too much hyperbole! But, I do thank you for showing the link. I was not aware of the site before this.
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With regards to NutritionFacts.org, have a look at the “sources cited” tab. The links to all the sources used for articles and videos on the site are listed under this tab.
