#12

The suggested clinical dose of “Visudyne” is 6mg/m2.
This cannot be converted into a “Mg/kg” dose.
Each person must find out how much Body Surface Area they have. There is a formula to do this. In my case, (178 cm tall and 70 kg) I have 1.86m2.

So, in my case, I would need 6 x 1.86 or roughly 11mg.
However, as that is the dose for photo activation, I would probably start off with a dose such as 2mg for safety if using it as a senolytic.

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#13

The full paper for the study mentioned in the first post of this thread:

s43587-023-00480-4Small.pdf (5.9 MB)

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#14

In our clinic, we use Dasatinib 100mg for 3 days each week for 3 consecutive weeks coupled with Quercitin 1,000mg on each treatment day. This combination has few adverse effects and the vast majority of our patients love the result. The question that arises is when to repeat therapy. given that we do not have a readily available and reliable set of serum markers to tell us when and to what extent we are redeveloping a significant senescent load. And in those folks like me, who also use Rapamycin, which slows the formation of senescent cells, the questions are multiplied. We tend to go by clinical markers and when retreating we often reduce the 9-day therapy to 3 or 6 days.
The D Q therapy had the best extension of life and health span of all the therapies tried thus far. 36% extension with a single course of therapy in the mice. But I also like the improved markers noted in the rapa trials. So personally I use both as do many of my more adventurous patients.

J.N.Mixon MD

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#15

@DocJerry There was a study done on human senescent cell load. I linked to it somewhere on these forums. I remember that the recommendation was to perform the D+Q treatment every 6 months for individuals over the age of 60. This led to a 12-year age reduction of senescent cell burden (So a 60 yo would have the senescent cell load of a 48 yo with 2 treatments each year).

In addition, a 70 year old body cleans out senescent cells 10X slower than a 25 yo. A 25 yo takes 2.5 days to clear senescent cells. A 70 yo takes 25 days which is why they build up so much. The longer you wait the more they spread their SASP toxins and turn other cells senescent. This info is from the same paper mentioned above.

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#16

Do you have a source for this claim, and is there any outcomes studies on using D+Q?

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#17

I looked it up. Here’s the source information

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#18

I don’t think it’s possible to extrapolate mice studies like that to humans, but it’s a start.

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#19

The authors extrapolated it. It makes sense to me. It may not be perfect, but at least it’s based on a mammalian model.

Also, it sounds reasonable.

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#20

Theory alone will only take you so far.

#21

“Better to light one small :candle: candle than to curse the darkness” - Confucius

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#22

I’m 67 y/o female & Dr Green recently changed my prescribed 100 mg of Dasatinib (accompanied by 1k Quercetin w/ea dose) to 3 days in a row every other month, while continuing to take 4 mg Sirolimus 1 x wk. Been taking Sirolimus (4mg x 1wk) & Dasatinib (100 mg x 1 mo - prior) for past 18 months. The blessing of feeling great when I started becomes a curse because I cannot state “I love my results”. My blood work consistently comes back very good. I do prioritize sleep, diet & exercise. I’m happy to be a (successful) science project in this exciting and ever changing journey!

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#23

I am familiar with these papers. Here is my quandary. It seems that every cell type has a unique SASP signature. There are around 15 or so different SASPs produced by senescent cells but those in the lung do not produce the same products as those in the skin, liver, heart, adipose tissues etc. The most reliable markers for Senescent cell count seems to be based on tissue staining, and in my clinic there is a significant resistance to poking holes in people to get tissues to stain for senescent cell count! No one is going into my liver, heart or lung for tissue Bx 2-3 times a year to see if I need another round of therapy. But we do not have a decent / reliable blood test as yet to use in making or clinical determination. Lots of smart folks are working on this, but to date no one has come up with a protocol that I think is useable. So we are still limited to clinical criteria for the moment.
And yes you are correct that young people tend to make senescent cells more slowly and clear them faster than us old farts. But even there, life style, percentage of body fat, Myokine production in those with lots of active muscle, and it’s attendant anti-senescent pro-growth bias reduces senescent cell reduction while fat, sedentary folks make them faster and clear them slower than fitter age matched people.
Metformin is also a SIRT1 inhibitor that reduces senescent cell load. Since I use both Metformin and Rapamycin, and periodic DQ therapy, all of the above is of interest to me and the Physicians in my clinics. We are also aware that maintaining youthful hormone balance has a large impact on the rate of Stem cell senescence. That is part of why we measure 8 different hormone levels in our patients 4 times a year and adjust our levels to the mid range of a healthy 25-30 year old no matter what the chronological age of the patients. We approach aging in a rather comprehensive manner compared to most clinics.

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#24

I was in the same boat until couple weeks ago that I started taking 500mg metformin just before bed and now I can proudly say “I LOVE MY RESULTS”! I wake up in the morning refreshened and feeling 20lbs lighter on my feet ( In reality I might only be a pound or so lighter). Use to take it in the morning and I was feeling shitty all day long. Thanks to guys in these forums I switched to before bed and now I’m a new man LOL

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#25

Terri
I’m not sure I understand part of your post. Feeling great is one of the goals. But why would it be a curse?

JNM

#26

@DocJerry Excellent post and thank you for your input.

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#27

It was meant tongue in cheek. I started my protocol feeling great, so I haven’t experienced that remarkable upswing others tout in their day-to-day physical well being. I think more than anything, I’ve become more aware of the less obvious underlying issues and discovered some gut microbiome dysbiosis that would have led to future problems. With no medical background, some guidance from a couple different sources - this blog being one, I’m thoroughly intrigued and enjoying being on the forefront of this experience.

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#28

At different points in time, I’ve sporadically added Metformin throughout the week. Thanks for the reminder. I’ll add it back in and see if I can top the way I feel.

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#29

If you do add it make sure to take it before bed time. It was a big difference (for me)than when taken in the morning.

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#30

One thing you may want to consider is taking a sample to determine senescent cells in visceral adipose tissue. Based on my research, it appears that adipose tissue has the largest concentration of the most problematic senescent cells in the human body. If you measure these, you may get a good picture of the overall senescent cell load in the body. It’s also much easier to take a sample of adipose tissue than organ tissue.

Other options may be using ultrasound as senescent cells tend to clump and could show up in a scan. However, I’m not sure about this as I’ve never tested it.

#31

@DocJerry Thanks for your valuable contribution.

A few related questions please:

  1. Any concerns on the well documented risk of Dasatinib on the liver and Blagosklonny’s view that it is very difficult to target l senescent cells selectively?https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8416555/
  2. How do you feel about combining Dasatinib with Fisetin instead of Quercetin?
  3. What would be an appropriate age for a healthy person to consider doing a first D + Q cure?

Thanks!