To me it seems reasonable to conclude that initial fatigue shows that Urolithin A is actually doing its job.
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AnUser
#144
If someoneās up for it, they could do a self-blinding experiment. Simply put the Urolithin A in non-transparent 00 capsules. Fill up similar capsules with creatine, placebo. Have the Urolithin A in a bottle which under it is marked and the placebo capsules in a copy of the bottle. Then mix them together and take one randomly, check which one you took the next day, and fill up again or remove capsule to keep them equal and repeat.
I would have been happier with an honest answer on this point. This says āmarketingā to meā¦.and a disregard for customer experience.
I donāt mean to say this rep is lying but rather the company talking points and training are not honest or selectively honest.
Iāll keep watching this space but not buying for now.
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adssx
#146
She wasnāt a rep but some kind of āindependentā nutrition expert. I think she was honest. But stupid.
Yesterday I tried half the dose (250 mg): no fatigue. But still disturbed sleep: waking up often with thoughts. Easy to go back to sleep but as if my body didnāt want to rest and to just start the day. Iāll try the normal dose (500 mg) again in a few days.
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It will probably calm down a bit. I have not tried it again since I tried it this week. I think the Mitopure has arrived as well. I intend to try that soon, but I am planning on my 3 weekly Rapamycin this tuesday so wonāt want to try it around then.
Hence once I have moved on a few half lives from the Rapamycin on Tuesday I will probably try a single dose of mitopure. I do expect the impact to wear off as the first few times will encounter more mitochondria to recycle.
Edit later on 17/2 - Mitopure has arrived. Nice Box, but then it is a lot more expensive than the other things claimed to be Urotlithin A.
3 Likes
AnUser
#148
From Nootropics Depot CEO:
We were considering it, but then one of our competitors started offering it, and they got sued by Nestle. We could sell it right now if we want, but Nestle is claiming they have patent rights to it. I didnāt want to get into a big fight with a company like Nestle, so I held off for now. Nestle might have just not noticed LiftMode yet. Itās bullshit. I donāt think they would actually win in a lawsuit, but they can bankrupt you in the fight.
And it was exactly as you said @RapAdmin
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RapAdmin
#149
Yes - this is a common problem in the Silicon Valley also, where many of the startups end up competing with the big guys like Google, Microsoft, Apple, etc. - and the threat of litigation is always a concern, of if they show interest in buying the startup they can do due diligence and then just copy your technology and youāre faced with the issue of ādo you really want to battle the big guys legallyā?
It usually doesnāt go well for the smaller guy:
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I also received a ānutrition expertā consultation offer and had an even worse experience. I will never do business with this company again. Im glad they responded to your bug report as they have ignored technical concerns of mine.
For example they will accept a PO Box at checkout no problem. Then on day of delivery FedEx may call to demand a physical address for delivery (which can be a big problem if you are out of town, etc). Nowhere during the checkout process was FexEx mentioned. Eventually they acknowledged that my order should have been shipped by USPS, but they offered no apology and didnāt seem to care about resolving technical problems.
I am searching for other suppliers of Urolithin A and would not give this company another chance even if they reduced prices by 50%. I like companies that seek to improve and treat customers with respect.
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Neo
#151
Man, that sucks. See this post and the ones around it above.
You could buy Solgarās Mitopure directly on Amazon at the point of that post
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Thank you @Neo I may try Solgar or another brand. I also like the idea of trying to improve microbiome production of Urolithin A as @RapAdmin responded to @ēŗ¦ē夫_ęē»“å° near the beginning of this topics thread. I just wish there were blood tests to easily measure what we are seeking to accomplish.
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My guess is a somewhat more charitable version of Adssxās: I greatly doubt the rep is lying, and assume that the person has never heard of this, is not a biochemist, and is honestly reflecting a mixture of lack of knowledge (āhappens instantlyā) and not having scoured internet forums to discover that people are apparently reporting fatigue. There are no reports of subjective fatigue in either of the two placebo-controlled trials,
https://www.cell.com/cell-reports-medicine/fulltext/S2666-3791(22)00158-6
ā¦ so maybe itās rare and only being seen now that tens of thousands are taking it, or wasnāt noticed by the elderly people in the Cell Reports Medicine trial, or people didnāt volunteer it when asked about side-effects (particularly if it was transient and they were asked about such effects at the end of the trial).
We should also bear in mind that āon the internet, nobody knows youāre a dog.ā Itās possible that some of the people on this forum are the same people on Reddit and the same people on Longecity reporting this effect, and weāre all getting hyped up on an echo chamber. Even adssx might be getting a nocebo effect after reading the Reddit anecdotes.
5 Likes
Neo
#154
Perhaps ask these guys if they could offer one to consumers - or let us do their research one. I think many of us here - and in broader world - would be interested given the 500+ papers on how increasing UA can help healthā¦
3 Likes
adssx
#155
(yes she was 100% not lying. Nocebo: possible)
Something that might have contributed to the greater fatigue (and I only realized it now): in addition to taking 500 mg Mitopure I think on each of these days I drank some pomegranate juice. Whereas on the 250 mg I did not.
2 Likes
That does not appear to be Urolithin A. Look at the label. Maybe precursors. Amazon can be so sketchy. Iāve complained to them about obvious fake reviews of one supplement and a seller lying about the amount of product for sale on another. I got a refund on the latter but to this day nothing has been done about the misrepresentations.
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Why would they do anything? ā the misrepresentations are what sell Amazonās products!
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For the record, my partner and I have been using Mitopure 500mg once a day for three days and have noticed zero fatigue and normal sleep.
We also both take AG1 and a weekly dose of 5mg Rapamycin.
Weāll check in later with more on our experience. We bought 120 capsules using the BREW30 discount code mentioned above, so we each plan to take 500mg daily for two months.
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21:33 for his review of studies on Urolithin A
Physionic: Heās not seeing any reason to jump into this yet.
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cl-user
#160
Looks like people really want UA to work but the first RTC says: Nope.
These results showed no significant improvement with urolithin A supplementation compared with placebo. No statistical differences in adverse events were observed between the 2 groups.
Even though a lot of the authors work for the company making UA including the Founder/CEO, The chair of the board and an employee.
Conflict of Interest Disclosures: Dr Liu reported receiving grants from drugs at no cost for research use from Stealth BioTherapeutics and supplements at no cost for research use from AstaReal outside the submitted work. Dr DāAmico reported being an employee of Amazentis SA during the conduct of the study and receiving personal fees from Amazentis SA outside the submitted work. Dr Shankland reported receiving drugs at no cost for research use from Stealth BioTherapeutics and supplements at no cost for research use from AstaReal outside the submitted work. Ms Bhayana reported receiving drugs at no cost for research use from Stealth BioTherapeutics and supplements at no cost for research use from AstaReal outside the submitted work. [ā¦] Dr Aebischer reported being the chair of the board and a shareholder of Amazentis SA during the conduct of the study. Dr Rinsch reported being the founder, the chief executive officer, and a board member of Amazentis SA during the conduct of the study
The second paper is directly a 100% company study:
Declaration of interests
A.S., D.D., P.A.A., A.M.F., W.B.-B., and C.R. are employees, P.A. and C.R. are board members, and J.A. and P.A. are members of the Scientific Advisory Board of Amazentis SA, who is the sponsor of this clinical study.
That one did not find any statistically significant useful clinical outcome either.
- VO2 peak : Non significant
- Peak power output: Non significant
- 6-minute walk : Non significant
Supplementation with high (1,000 mg/d) and low (500 mg/d) doses of UA resulted in non-significant improvements (4.30% and 3.90%, respectively) in PPO (the primary endpoint) compared with the placebo group from baseline.
All that with mostly obese, untrained and unfit people with who generally any kind of intervention does improve some clinical outcome.
BTW the baseline VO2 max is 23. Thatās a pretty low fitness!
8 Likes
I think you read the abstract too quickly ā perhaps skipped to the end of the āresultsā section without reading the rest of it.
Urolithin A, compared with placebo, significantly improved muscle endurance (ie, increase in the number of muscle contractions until fatigue from baseline) in the FDI and TA at 2 months (urolithin A: FDI, 95.3 [115.5] and TA, 41.4 [65.5]; placebo: FDI, 11.6 [147.4] and TA, 5.7 [127.1]).[The differences were no longer significant at 4 months, but the raw difference was if anything larger at that point (Fig. 1), leaving open the possibility that it might just have been underpowered. -RC]
Plasma levels of several acylcarnitines, ceramides, and C-reactive protein were decreased by urolithin A, compared with placebo, at 4 months (baseline vs 4 mo: urolithin A, 2.14 [2.15] vs 2.07 [1.46]; placebo, 2.17 [2.52] vs 2.65 [1.86]).
The mean (SD) increase from baseline in the 6-minute walk distance was 60.8 (67.2) m in the urolithin A group and 42.5 (73.3) m in the placebo group [14.9% vs. 10.1%]. The mean (SD) change from baseline to 4 months in maximal ATP production in the FDI was 0.07 (0.23) mM/s in the urolithin A group and 0.06 (0.20) mM/s in the placebo group; for the TA, it was ā0.03 (0.10) mM/s in the urolithin A group and 0.03 (0.10) mM/s in the placebo group. These results showed no significant improvement with urolithin A supplementation compared with placebo.
These trials certainly donāt suggest that UA is a going to turn the sedentary elderly into dance champions, and their results are ambiguous all around, and limited to the study populations (i.e., @ēŗ¦ē夫_ęē»“å° is quite right to ask if theyāre relevant to physically active middle-aged people). But they certainly are reporting biological effects in human trials, which is a lot more than you can say for a lot of supplements.
7 Likes
AnUser
#162
Did you look at the video linked by Joseph above from Physionic, specifically the part about Urolithin A? Is the study you are citing a different one he talks about? If so why is his assessment of Urolithin A seemingly different than yours?
