#10

You may want to consider taking it once a week for 8–10 weeks and then cycling off for a month or more. Studies have shown that you will get almost all of the benefits and perhaps you will have fewer side effects. Matt Kaeberlein does something similar to that.

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#11

Saladino wrote a book called “The Carnivore Code” that argued that the carnivore diet was optimal for human health. Less than a year later he announced he was quitting the carnivore diet and eating 100g of carbs per day. But this is okay, you see, because the carbs are from “ancestral sources” like honey, fruit, and rice. Now he contends the keto diet can be dangerous. (Sorry, book buyers, no refunds. But you should still buy my crazy expensive organ meat supplements and my $200/month glucose monitoring plan.)

All this makes it difficult to take Saladino seriously.

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#12

People like Salatino use basic psychology to sell their crazyness to people. I sometimes feel like David Asprey among others does the same.

  1. Tell people, that their bad habits are actually great for them. Convince them with logical sounding pseudo science.
  2. Tell people how innovative and wise they are with their lifestyle.
  3. Tell people how stupid others are, who stick to the current research.

The newly created community will fight for their beliefs.

  1. Sell crazy stuff, like organ supplements.
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#13

The Saladino diet:

image

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#14

Ok - so here is some of the counter-argument against the statements by Dr. Carnivore by Brian Kennedy, Geroscientist (in addition to the aforementioned rebutal against the excessive fear mongering around immune supression). Dr. Protein seems clueless about Rapamycin and really shouldn’t be talking about things he doesn’t understand well…

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#15

The way it has been since Edward Bernays

Review;

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#16

that’s only because they got eaten by dinosaurs, duh (j/k)

#17

I don’t have words… oh yes I actually do!
He’s made so many changes over the years that I really don’t think he truly knows anything other than what works for him personally at any given time. I say this as someone who bought his carnivore book when it was first released. I have the utmost respect for his medical background/degree but I don’t think it qualifies him to be handing out broad recommendations and personally I will just stick with my own experience and that of other ordinary people who aren’t trying to sell me anything. When I was on Instagram back when covid first hit he was claiming in a post that people eating the carnivore diet were basically immune to catching it yet I had been eating carnivore for about 10 months at that time and still got covid. :slight_smile: That was when I stopped following him. It isn’t a miracle diet as he made it out to be (although I found it beneficial in many ways) and he has since changed his stance. He’s taking his followers along on his journey of discovery about diet/ lifestyle hacks that work for him which is a shame really since we all have our own unique situation/context to consider when deciding what works best for us. The optimal human diet is just never, ever that simple and highly individual in my opinion.

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#18

Wow. Alotta comments :open_mouth:

Ok, yall don’t have to like Dr Saladino. But I gotta say I do. I kinda think he’s made progress in nutrition. Not on his own. All his ideas are from other people. And he says so and gives credit. But I think changing your ways based on data that you collect on yourself is proooobably the proper way to do science.

Is anybody else standing up for the postprandial curve and sayin “you need that - it’s healthy”?

He shills the dessicated organ pills, but if you’re gonna shill somethin, that’s not a terrible thing ta shill, I’d say.

But, he does go on and on and on and on. Not thrilled with that part. But it kinda seems to me that honey actually is pretty magic. Significantly different than sugar. Maybe not chemically. But somehow. Maybe our cells just “know” it.

But, you know, in the end…

This mtor pathway is in the deep deep guts of our cells. (Well, almost all if not all eukaryotes, right?) We know the key that definitely resets it for a while (rapamycin). And we know a tiny tiny bit about how it’s turned on. And a tinier bit about what comes after it (almost everything:)

But it’s a very deep pathway. With a LOT leading up to it. And a LOT of things happening after it.
To say you understand it is craziness.

To say you understand it is saying you understand practically EVERYTHING about nutrition. And that’s crazy talk. We’re nowhere near that.

I think we’ll find significantly more things that lead up to and follow mtor that we have no idea about now.

But, you know, in the end… I’m sure glad we found it. Very glad !! Thank goodness we found it.

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#19

I can honestly say that I do not understand any of this.

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#20

To all, I agree there’s too much hype in all subjects. In regard / comments on Salaino.

Re carnivore diet. My wife has read Salidino’s book, followed his evolution. Look at his picture, he’s got an amazing body no mater what you say. My wife eats 90% meat/fish and a bit of honey/squashes. I don’;t like vegies and just eat meat and only meat and am the one on rapa/senolytics.

As we age we need to eat approaching and exceeding 100g of protein to stave off sarcopenia. Protein also helps with osteroposis. Which is another reason why we biase what we eat to be nearly 100% meats.

I’m defending the carnivore diet. We go to 3 medical conferences a year on Low Carb / Metabolic Health. My wife wears the $200/mo CGM (Salidinos reco) for 2 yr+ and probably will wear one for 6 mo more and stop. after 2.5yr she now has her diet tuned to 75-85 flat for 24hrs x 7 days. She was not this metabolicly in control prior to Salitino / CGM use!!! The CGM was the policeman that tattled when there was vering off diet.

We’ve just traveled to Denver for the Low Carb conf 2023 / Denver. Every speaker has an advanced degree and clinical experience. We went to the Low Carb/Metabolic Conf of Boca in FL in Feb and prior years. I can summarize; strip carbs from your diet for all forms of health, mental health, weight loss and disease avoidance and chronic disease resolution. Yes to time restricted eating, yes to periodic fasting, yes to metabolically being in ketosis, yes to low carb. These are just my views from spending so much time, $$, study on diet vs health.

We just cooked in our hotel room via a george forman grill a conventional steak each that we bought at whole foods. A few olives a few pieces of cheese, a few paper coffee cups (hotel provided) of wine. Haha so yes a tiny bit of carbs, but mostly meat. We both feel best after years and years of refining from a quality wide ranged vegie + meat diet (more grains and vegies and meat) and not feeling well. Now feel best, blood work is best, inflamation are all best (for us) on meat.

FWIW at home we’ve moved to a wine vendor that selects world wide wine producers for low/no sugar AND no toxics. Look up https://www.dryfarmwines.com for a keto friendly low toxics source of wine.

I agree though that you are entitled to your own opinions. We are all on our own tracks.

We have both learned re so many personalities out there in these frustrating recent times; listen, but dig into the raw data yourselves to determine for yourselves what is fact and what facts apply to your body. I really do mean, you need to read the body of the studies not just the abstracts and even into the raw data.

Wishing all the best, curt

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#21

i take it to lower inflammation. i took it three different 10 week bouts with many months in between so far and everytime it helped me getting rid of tendon injuries very effectively. mtorc1 inhibition seems to help. mtorc2 inhibition obviously has a different effect inhibiting the immune and helping the organ transplant rejection.

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#22

I think the goal of taking rapamycin weekly instead of daily is to reduce a hyper functional immune system back to normal vs an organ transplant recipient who’s goal is to suppress the immune system below normal. So I don’t think bacterial infections are an issue if you are dosing intermittently and in fact you may be more resistant since a hyper functional immune system can also lower immunity.

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#23

More new research on protein’s affect on muscle loss:

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#24

I wonder if rapa by shutting off mtor for a while counteracts this sort of “anabolic resistance” that develops.

Maybe periodic fasting, would do the same.

Of course, resistance training seems to trump all.

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#25

It is an association study which does not establish any kind of cause and effect.

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#26

True - but some other data I’ve just come across:

Pankaj Kapahi (Buck Institute)

Just want to add the results are similar in mice and flies- I was a bit surprised when I saw this in our lab- basically in the muscle you see that lower protein intake upregulates a lot of structural proteins in the muscle- why? - one thing we see is that animals on low protein are more active.

and

Very recently published meta-analysis of 69 randomized controlled trials testing the effects of protein consumption on muscle strength.

Summary- There are no benefits to increased protein consumption on muscle strength unless combined with resistance exercise. There are no benefits to increased protein consumption on muscle strength above 1.5g/kg body weight, even when combined with resistance exercise. Increasing protein consumption from 0.8g/kg (RDA) to 1.5g/kg adds only an additional 5% increase in strength compared to resistance exercise alone. The average time duration of the studies in this meta-analysis was 22 weeks.

“With resistance training, muscle strength increases at the rate of 0.72% (95% CI 0.40–1.04%) per 0.1 g/kg body weight [BW]/d increase in total protein intake up to 1.5 g/kg BW/d, but no further gains are achieved thereafter.”

“Muscle strength cannot be increased by protein supplementation only without resistance training.”

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#27

yes I would call it bullshit after observing what a higher protein intake did to my body. For years I tried to build muscle and always failed until I tried the carnivore diet

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#28

It was the same with this guy. Oh wait … he’s a vegetarian.

image

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#29

Thank you for those responses. That was very helpful!

1 Like