#41

No need to brave the stink. The soybeans have more spermidine.

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/fstr/22/1/22_153/_pdf#:~:text=subtilis%20(natto).-,Nishibori%20et%20al.,181%20nmol%2Fg%2C%20respectively.

Natto is made from soybeans fermented using Bacillus subtilis (natto). Nishibori et al. (2007) measured the polyamine contents of various foods: natto contained 175 nmol/g putrescine, 232 nmol/g spermidine and 19 nmol/g spermine, whereas soybeans contained 194 nmol/g, 728 nmol/g and
181 nmol/g, respectively. These results demonstrate that the individual polyamine contents decrease during the natto fermentation process.

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#42

Tempeh is an alternative soybean fermented product high in Spermidine

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#43

FWIW

In another thread/posting, back in March, 2022 I posted the following;

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#44

Please be careful about recommending spermidine to anyone with cancer. I have heard that cancer loves spermidine and glucose. It does not cause cancer, but fuels it.

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#45

Whatā€™s wrong with mk7, I thought it was the most bioavailable form of K2? I supplement with mk7 although I probably do get a lot of mk2 from home fermented dairyā€¦

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#46

Thatā€™s another tricky one. They used to say that mk-7 was better because it lasted longer. Then some papers came out and showed that it lasted longer because you have to convert it to mk-4 for it to be used. Kind of like carotine being converted to vitamin A. And some people are better than others at making the conversion.

Now I see that mk-7 is actually better than mk-4 at doing some things. Itā€™s better at getting to the liver to support blood clotting, also a little better at getting to the bone. So I suppose it would be best to take a mix of the two, but mk-4 is the one your body makes and the one it generally converts all the others into. So lean heavily onto mk-4.

I got this from Chris Masterjohn who discovered Weston Priceā€™s X-factor was actually vitamin k2. He was writing articles for WAPF for years before he went on to get his Phd.

This all takes me back to when I tried making Natto. It was all inspired by WAPF. Also the humor piece in The Sneeze that I linked to above was written about 20 years ago and Iā€™ve probably read it 10 times and laughed every time. Laughter is great medicine. Having said that some of the jokes are crude, but I thought this audience may be mature enought to handle it. Lol.

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#47

In my travels today I discovered Bifidobacterium LKM512:

It goes on and on about how wonderful this probiotic is for increasing polyamines and decreasing inflammation, good for heart disease etcā€¦

I canā€™t find it anywhere for sale. What gives? Any ideas out there?

#48

At Longecity it was argued that BB LKM512 is the same as BB-12. Admittedly currently I canā€™t find the exact source of that information anymore, but it was a patent from what I remember. Thus I bought a probiotic with the BB-12 strain (and no additional strains, so I could make soy yoghurt out of it). I took this strain and ate that yoghurt for years, nearly every day. At the time I had autoimmune/inflammatory issues; personally I never noticed any effects. When it became more difficult to buy a probiotic here with that separate strain last year, I just stopped taking it altogether.
Some people imported a probiotic with the BB LKM512 strain from Japan.

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#49

@Biceps: In this study B. lactis LKM 512 is also listed as Bb-12.

MATERIALS AND METHODS

Bacterial strains

A yogurt (LKM512 yogurt) was prepared by inoculating B. lactis LKM 512 (Bb-12, Chr. Hansen, HĆørsholm, Den- mark), Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus LKM 1759 and Streptococcus thermophillus LKM 1742 into milk, and fermenting at 43Ā°C for 4 h. The numbers of B. lactis LKM 512 and two lactic acid bacteria were 5.2 Ɨ 107 and 4.7 Ɨ 108 cfu/g, respectively, after fermentation.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/089106000435455

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#50

Strangely enough, Iā€™ve heard quite a bit about it in Japan, where apparently they sell a lot of it:

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#51
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#52

Iā€™ve been still working on and off trying to buy lkm512 from Japan. No luck at all. The google translate feature doesnā€™t really work well for Japanese. I canā€™t make the email work. Iā€™m scared to dial the phone number. None of their sites have an english extension.

Astonishing that this strain, which is supposed to be very effective for people that need Bifidum is completely unavailable in the US. I have the FUT3 gene and therefore stomach issues. I just want to try it.

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#53

Have you tried DeepL for translating the Japanese? DeepL Translate: The world's most accurate translator
Never tried it for Japanese myself but its better than Google for other languages so it might just work for you.

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#54

When I was in Japan, I used Google translate. It worked well enough. That was many years ago, so it must have gotten better since.

#55

Fantastic! Worked much better than the other version I had. Still I canā€™t make it take my email address, or send them anything using the crazy form they supply.

Iā€™ll work on Denmark for awhile.

Thanks,

#56

Check out this thread in longecity.

Poster says LKM 512 was rebranded to BB-12, and points to a source study.

Go to page 24.

Longecity points to a US source of BB-12.

Will order some. I also intend to go to Japanese stores in NY and check out if they have some of the Meito yogurt.

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#57

Brad Stanfeld just warned against it

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#58

BB-12Ā®{is the register trademark] probiotic strain from Chr. Hansen.

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#59

You did it Juan. Thanks so much.

#60

He warned that maybe it wonā€™t work because Richard Miller says it doesnā€™t get into the tissue.

It didnā€™t pass the test to get into the ITP, which is to make it into tissues in the body. One of the major benefits of Spermadine is that it makes the gut junctions tight. It does not need to leave the gut to do this. Another benefit of this strain of Bifida bacteria is that it tightly binds to the gut and protects you from the bad guys. So to me it is about reducing the microbial burden, which is what this is purported to do very well.

It is possible spermadine canā€™t be absorbed through the gut. I donā€™t know this, but centenarians have more, and more seems to be better.

Iā€™ll have to keep working the problem. Thanks.

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