#947

It could be even good for the baby! Best wishes to you!

1 Like
#948

I think it is a known fact that the food we eat is either genetically modified and/or chemicals/hormones are used to make them grow faster. As an example, I remember growing up in a farm, that we never would slaughter a chicken unless it was at least 8 months old. In other words, it took at least that long for a chick to mature enough for slaughter. Watched on tv ones that in commercial farming all chickens are ready for slaughter at 6 weeks old. I have to assume some of hormones given to the chicken/other animals for rapid growth, may be passed on to people while consuming the meat. I would think that in kids IT would mean bigger body mass vertically and horizontally, whereas in adults, It could translate in growing horizontally (if you know what I mean .:slight_smile:

3 Likes
#949

Trust me we make it a priority. Milk daily and meat. Compared to most American kids they have a great diet. One of them, the smallest of all for her age, has been a milk avoider for a while but is coming around to it now. We’ve even been pushing protein shakes but they hate the taste. The kids are 40th, 25th, 11th, and 5th percentile in height respectively. But compared to the other kids nearby even the 40th percentile one looks like a midget. We moved from NYC where they were considered more average height, to a small white town where the kids are GIANTS but their diets are not as healthy as those or upper middle class NYC kids.

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#950

That’s why I never eat chicken! :joy:

1 Like
#951

You might not need supplementation. The test strips will tell you.

#952

While technically the inhibitory effect of GFJ lasts only roughly 4 hours, the effects it has on absorption lasts much longer than that. As I understand it, GFJ inhibits CYP3A4 activity in the intestinal cells but after roughly 4 hours have passed from the time of consumption this inhibitory effect is mostly gone. So as you said, after 4 hours, the GFJ is no longer inhibiting it. However, the CYP3A4 enzymes that were already inhibited during those 4 hours remain inhibited even when the GFJ is no longer present because the inhibition is irreversible. The result is that CYP3A4 enzyme activity won’t be restored to baseline until the body has produced more CYP3A4 enzymes to replace those that were inhibited. This replacement occurs gradually over about three or so days, therefore the effect of GFJ takes roughly three days to wear off.

As a side note. People with access to rapamycin blood tests can take blood tests to figure out how long it takes the effect of GFJ to wear off because obviously it will be somewhat individual. If you take a certain dose of rapamycin with GFJ and measure blood levels 48 later you’ll see how much you absorb with GFJ. Then after a washout period you could take the same dose of rapamycin 24, 48, or 72 hours after taking the GFJ and measure 48 hours later after each dose to see how high your rapamycin blood level is compared to how it was when you took rapamycin with the GFJ. Doing this you should see decreasing blood levels the longer away from the GFJ you took the rapamycin. This would show you how quickly the effect would fade away in your case. Of course this requires several blood tests and isn’t cheap, but for those that plan on taking rapamycin with GFJ and have the time and money and ability to test this, it would be a good idea IMO.

8 Likes
#953

It would be entertaining and interesting. Not really useful since we don’t know what it takes for longevity. That’s the problem with this drug.

Our lives are longer than our attention span.

4 Likes
#954

FYI, what I was thinking of when I said it would be useful to take blood tests to figure out how quickly it takes for the GFJ effect to wear off is that, while it wouldn’t be useful for rapamycin dosing (since anyways people usually wait much more than 3 days between doses), it would be useful for knowing how many days after ingesting GFJ you have to be careful with ingesting various other supplements and drugs that are metabolized with CYP3A4. If GFJ would only increase the absorption of rapamycin and no other compounds then it would be best for all to use GFJ, but one has to take into account potential interactions with other compounds, and how long after GFJ the effect lasts, and the risks associated with that.

4 Likes
#955

I agree it would be good to know. Here are two studies using other drugs.

https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1067/mcp.2000.104215?sid=nlm%3Apubmed

2 Likes
#956

Thanks for the study. My key takeaways from looking at the figures in that study are these:

  1. In case of these drugs, the increase in AUC and Cmax is only about 50% or a little less at 24 hours compared to what it is when GFJ is taken in the first 4 hours before the drugs.
  2. The individual variation (the study tested this in 9 healthy adults) in the relative increase in AUC and Cmax after GFJ ingestion is very high. Some experienced a several fold greater increase than others. This is already well known and suggests that those using GFJ should test their blood levels of rapamycin to see how much of an increase they get because it can vary a lot between individuals.
  3. It appears that even for those with the highest increase in AUC and Cmax, the effect is reduced by a good bit at 24 hours. I take this to mean that perhaps there isn’t a great variation in how long it takes for the effect to wear off. I can’t be certain of this however because the study didn’t show the data for individual subjects separately.
  4. The relative increase in Cmax is greater than the increase in AUC for both drugs. This is important and suggests that GFJ ingestion will increase the peak more than the AUC. While some may take this as a positive, to me, I take this as a sign that people should be careful when consuming GFJ with rapamycin if they are taking high doses. Careful because excessively high peak levels might be risky. Considering that rapamycin has historically been used without GFJ and considering that the risk of ingested compounds generally increases with increasing concentrations. Therefore, when taking high doses of rapamycin with GFJ I think it’s possibly a good idea to spread the dose out a bit over several hours instead of taking it all in one go. This would still create a high peak but make it less exaggerated and sharp and more evened out and more similar to what it would be if one were to take high dose rapamycin without GFJ.
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#957

Thanks. This is a good summary. I’m curious about the quote. I thought an excessively high peak would not be as effective (Mannick study on immune system improvements in elderly; 20mg vs 5mg), but that a longer lasting presence of rapamycin is what would turn down mTORC2 (continuous vs periodic dosing).

What is your take on this?

This is why I no longer take rapa with fat which slows absorption but increases bioavailability (lower peak; larger AUC).

2 Likes
#958

sorry for bring it back, but how you replaced these oils? what was a replacement for you?

#959

Olive oil and lard instead of vegetable oils.

#960

$10/1mg cheap?!

May I suggest:

Varun Medicals

Pro. Pravin Lahoti

Skype ID: p.lahoti

Mob. & What’s App :+91-9595453000 / 9822922559

www.varunmedicals.com

2 Likes
#961

Did you have fluid retention in your legs at the end of the day? Did your socks leave a crease that takes a while to disappear? I’ve had this happen a few times. Makes me wonder.

#962

$10 per 1 mg is not cheap. That was the local price. I eventually paid around 1 USD per mg when I successfully ordered from India.

#963

No, my ankle area swelled for just a couple of days. It was a feeling and had no outward appearance of swelling although I didn’t look too hard. It went away after a couple of days.

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#964

I have a similar experience. I noticed reduced gut motility and loss of apetite in the first week. Week 2 (I’m 5 days in right now) I started having some pains exactly as you describe in the stomach, like someone is squeezing my gut. I’ve had reduction in arthritis symptoms, I’m thinking clearer, I have more energy, and I feel overall younger. However, the pain in my gut was intense so I couldn’t sleep and my nighttime temp was 1.5 degrees higher than normal.

All symptoms are better after reducing my food intake by 50%, but there is still some pain when I press on my abdomen. I’m wondering if it’s gas pain or if my already poor gut bacterial situation is being made worse by rapamycin.

I’m going to pause my next dose. i have a generic rapamycin out of India, no enteric coating.

My wife notices nothing odd after her ramp to 2mg last week.

1 Like
#965

If the pain persists, please see a doctor. It may be something other than Rapamycin. Especially if it gets worse instead of getting better.

4 Likes
#966

Was going to give this a try but the coupon code is expired. Bummer!