#142

A mendelian randomization study finds a significant correlation between genetically determined higher level of added salt in food & a higher risk of dementia; UK biobank data; Also significant in cognitive performance, dementia in AD, & undefined dementia: Association between adding salt in food and dementia in European descent: A mendelian randomization study 2024

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#143

(For me and most people) Salt is addictive:
Salt addiction: a different kind of drug addiction
If I want to lower my salt intake, I get intense cravings (at night) and will go through a mini-kickoff period. And so it makes sense why some people that have tried reducing salt feel miserable and then when giving in and taking (a bit of) salt: they immediately feel better.
This could explain the conflicting evidence of short term studies vs longer term studies about salt intake and health. Going through a detox is not good for the body and it shows. However, if you can hang in for a few weeks, the detox symptons will subside and you will start to feel better.

Advantages that I seem to have recognized after a few months when my electrolytes have found a new equilibrium (not measured) :

  • lowers cortisol (less anxiety, calmer, better sleep, better focus)
  • easier to put on muscle mass
  • more emotional stability
  • improvements in (skin) auto-immunity issues and better wound healing
  • less estrogen dominant (manboobs are slowly disappearing)
  • less sensitive to hard noises (like breaking glass)
  • spontanously eating less calories (and so losing weight)
  • lower BP (but higher BP in the first few weeks !)
  • improvements in gout (but flare ups in the first few weeks !)
  • less muscle cramps (but more in the first few weeks !)
  • less inflammation (but more in the first few weeks !)

Don’t underestimate the length that food companies will go to to defend salt. It is pratically free, it is (not standalone but in other foods/drinks) addictive and everyone is literally wired to seek it (tastebuds).
And indeed, you need some to sustain (early ?) life, but … not much.
I think a typical Western person, by age 40-50 (?), probably has accumulated enough salt (under the skin) to last for the rest of their life: Time to rethink salt

I also think that the increases in salt (and sugar and oil) consumption are what drives the obesity crisis.
Sure, some people can handle it and don’t overeat, but most will be addicted and overeat.

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#144

I supplement a lot with Sodium, Potassium, Calcium and Magnesium in varying ratios. I wonder some times if an issue with salt (Sodium Chloride as opposed to other salts) is the Chloride rather than the Sodium.

I have been doing really quite well in terms of blood pressure recently with a high level of Sodium supplementation and looking back at my blood tests (weekly) a highish sodium figure can correlate with other good biomarkers (say Cystatin C).

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#145

In any case, our tastebuds are reacting to the chloride part, that ‘stingy’ sensation. That’s why Potassium Chloride works great as Salt-lite replacement. Same thing in sugar, we are specifically looking for the fructose, not the glucose (which tastes bland by itself).
But these replacements are not better. That’s like giving methadone to addicts. Sure it is less harmfull, but it doesn’t ‘solve’ anything.

#146

The anion for me is normally citrate.

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#147

The only food that “needs” salt, for me, is steelcut oatmeal. I forget to add a pinch to the water about ½ the time. The oatmeal with a little salt is delicious, but without is nearly inedible (unless I add berries).

#148

Welcome to the forum.
That’s an interesting talk.

I don’t really understand why salt is so harmful, yet, but all of the health agencies are saying we should have eat low amounts of salt, like they say we should have low cholesterol. I know a lot more about the latter. I wonder what they know.

It’s interesting in many ways, here’s the same person explaining the results.

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#149

I posted this previously in the citrate thread. It seems like that’s the case:

A limited number of clinical observations also suggest that blood pressure is not increased in humans by high dietary Na+ intake in the absence of Cl−

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4325190/

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#150

Thanks for that. Having looked at things it appears that it is a mixture of Na and Cl. I wonder if there is any research on the effects of Potassium Chloride.

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#151

How about replacing some of the salt Sodium bicarbonate with a pinch of sea salt? However, the taste can be bad. Endurance athletes use sodium bicarbonate, it reduces muscle acidity and thus improves performance.

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#152

Thank you for sharing your insights and the links. I shared them with a health group I’m in-I hope you don’t mind.
I’ve been back to no added salt (for the second time) for about 6 months and I must say things just keep getting better. It’s still seems kind of mind bending tbh. I always believed it was innocuous for most people. Now when I go to the store it’s shocking to me how many foods have added salt.
I was really pleased to finally hit the nutrient balance green zone for sodium and potassium in cronometer over the last 2 weeks.

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#153

I don’t follow a no added sodium diet right now. Mostly I don’t like to do things I can’t recommend to others, and it’s hard to recommend something that is so difficult because of the entire food supply is loaded in sodium. So I try and drink enough water, etc, and I will look to see if some drugs can help with this like SGLT2i. There are a lot of food people like to eat that is low in sodium and is generally healthy like fruit, vegetables, and no added sodium nuts, so I find those ones I enjoy as well.

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#154

It can be difficult adjustment. It’s taken me many months to really get in the groove with it again but I’m glad I continued on because the benefits are worth it to me. I’m mid 50’s so I probably have plenty of sodium in storage. My sweat still tastes like salt even though I’m only averaging around 500mg/day. Thanks for starting the topic. It’s really helped me get back on track, solved some vague but inconvenient symptoms and improved the appearance of my skin all over.

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#155

Salt sensitive individuals, are only sensitive to sodium chloride intake : sodium citrate and sodium bicarbonate intake have no effect on blood pressure.

If in fact chloride is the culprit, light salt (potassium chloride) may be just as bad as regular salt, unless you are potassium deficient.

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#156

I got slight food poisoning right after writing this, a little bit nauseous etc, so it made me think differently. It might become worse over the coming days. It’s probably important to try and eat healthy, and find ways to do so, and notice the traps that avoid that.

I’d guess I have to become a health extremist. A no-added sodium extremist. It’s not probably going to do much to lower sodium from 2000 mg to 750 mg or whatever, why I didn’t bother so much, or maybe it will I just don’t have evidence. But it’ll avoid the days of much higher sodium (the tail), and keep the system intact of eating healthy.

I have to rethink “I don’t like to do things I can’t recommend to others, because that thing is difficult”, that’s probably not a good one.

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#157

I don’t have this experience.

#158

@AnUser, I hope you recover quickly sir!
Sincerely, Fellow Basket Case & No Added Salt Extremist :joy:
PS- great video

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#159

Several studies point out that replacing (part of) your salt intake with Potassium Chloride works quite well (depending if you are salt sensitive) to reduce blood pressure, so it is definitely doing something: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0735109723082633.
If salt exits the stomach it is already dissolved into it’s anion and cation parts.
What the body subsequently stores in our skin is just the sodium anion, not the chloride cation : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEhEijQnAg0
Before you get confused in this type research, Sodium is called Natrium (Na+) in the rest of the world.
The lymphatic system can remove the sodium from the skin. Extra activation of the lymphatic system removes extra sodium. So … exercise drops blood pressure, who knew ? You can stimulate this lymphatic removal by standing on a vibrating plate (and not doing much exercise at all): Whole-body vibration combined with exercise may be more effective in lowering blood pressure and arterial stiffness than exercise alone in older adults with hypertension - PubMed
Sweating is also great at removal.
Glycosaminoglycans are needed to store the extra sodium in the skin. If there’s not enough it will be taken out of the body.
So, if you are consuming higher amounts of salt, at least take a glucosamine supplement with it so that your body does not have to steal (all) the needed glycosaminoglycans from somewhere else (muscle, connective tissues, …)

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#160

Here’s my sodium labs if it’s of interest. It’s normal but the lower end.

image
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#161

  1. The study cited on Potassium Chloride is not convincing, since the treatment group received less Chloride (some salt was replaced by flavoring) than the control group, so the blood pressure reduction could have been due to reduction in total Chloride intake. There are other studies that show that in those that are low on potassium, raising potassium will lower blood pressure, so it certainly helps in some cases.

  2. Excellent reminder of how lymphatic system works : Basically blood vessels are constantly leaking small amounts of plasma that pools in empty spaces (sometimes referred to as 3rd space) between cells, much of it under the skin. The lymphatic systems is responsible for draining this leaked plasma (lymph) to drain into the heart, relying on muscle compression to move the lymph. Apparently, whole-body vibration also moves the lymph along. Traditionally, massage is the non-exercise method to drain lymph, and presumably also helps lower blood pressure. Failure to exercise (or use massage or vibration) will cause lymph to accumulate and make tissues bloated, which presumably increases the internal pressure in tissues and raises blood pressure, though the accumulation of salt in the lymph may also pay a role. Diuretics will encourage kidney to dump more blood plasma (water + electrolytes) into the urine, which lowers blood pressure, which in turn encourages flow of lymph back into blood vessels reducing tissue bloating.

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