#1829

I confess that I had not consulted this 1959 review article in a defunct state medical journal :wink: . This article contains no clinical trial at all, let alone one with hard outcomes: it lays out the author’s clinical experience that niacin lowered total cholesterol in 44 patients in his clinic.

We have several large, randomized controlled trials now showing both that niacin lowers LDL-C and raises HDL-C and yet has no effect on hard outcomes.

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#1830

You can pontificate all you want about statins.

I have no interest in any statin.

As I have posted before in my view there are a plethora of compounds available that work equal or better than statins.

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#1831

This MR study was just published in 2022 in a major cardiovascular journal. It shows causal relationship of the mechanism of action of statin drugs on cognition as well as reaction times. It also showed a loss of cortical surface area. This doesn’t have to lead to Frank AD for the results to be concerning, especially if there’s other options, and considering that the absolute reduction in total mortality is less than one percent in primary prevention trials using statins.

We don’t know that certain statins are the exception, nor can we say that the concern over cognitive impairment has been discredited. Even mild cognitive issues, like word retrieval difficulties or mild recall problems, can be very distressing to most people.

https://www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacc.2022.05.041

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#1832

Citrus bergamot… might be a statin.

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#1833

…“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what is not true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”… ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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#1834

You haven’t established that citrus bergamot is safer than statins.
Simply not having enough data to prove it isn’t safe isn’t proof of safety.

“Absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence”
This is supplements 101. At least you know what you’re getting with statins.

I would want to tell you how horrible citrus bergamot extracts are, like you’re doing for statins. All of those different chemicals in it. But I can’t, because there isn’t data. It’s a dirty drug with lots of active chemicals.

It would be naive to think it is safer because it is natural.

7 Likes
#1835

Would be nice though to have something besides statins to handle high cholesterol. Statins give me muscle and joints pain, and trigger herpes virus sometimes. Cannot tolerate rosuvastatin every day, but continue taking it 3 times a week, which is not enough. Was taking bergamot as well, but I agree with you that it’s a dirty drug, and will most likely discontinue. I also take psyllium husk. Just got a script for ezetimibe, but it may affect kidneys. There’s nothing ideal!

1 Like
#1836

You can try Pantethine, but is may make for more bruising.

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#1837

I am not championing bergamot but common sense tells me that it is probably as safe or safer than statins.

Why, first it is from a citrus rind which would tell me that it is probably good for you because of the flavinoids it contains.
“Citrus peel and its extracts are rich in flavonoids, which are beneficial to human health”

Second, it has been used in Earl Grey tea for over two centuries. Where are the negatives? I am sure if you search hard enough you can find a “minority report”. But, no one, not even California :sweat_smile: , has issued a health warning about bergamot.

I believe the studies cited by Joseph are pretty convincing and I am going to give it a try.
Why, because there are many more negative reports about statins, especially for older people. I took statins for decades with no ill effects, but I quit statins about a year ago. I have managed to keep my lipid levels in the “good” range in spite of taking rapamycin, mainly by decreasing my rapamycin dose to 5mg taken weekly.

My goal is to increase rapamycin to the maximum level I can and still keep my lipids in check. So, by taking bergamot I may be able to increase my rapamycin dose and still keep my lipids in check.

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#1838

Seems like a good strategy. Statins of all varieties give me both muscle pains and severe constipation. Pantethine was doing the same . No issues over several months on even 1500 mg bergamot, so I suspect a different mechanism of action. Studies aren’t revealing significant side effects.

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#1839

I stopped citrus bergamot because my lipid profile showed no improvement after 4 weeks on it (Jarrow formulas brand). Ezetimibe on the other hand had a large impact, and I recently started bempedoic acid. I will test again soon to see how the bempedoic acid is performing.

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#1840

And you are naive to think statins are safe!

The fact is they are not.

#1841

“There’s none so blind as they that won’t see.” ~ Jonathan Swift

#1842

Let me give an example of side effects in a studied drug.

Guess what the drug is after you’ve read the side effects.

Uncommon: (may affect up to 1 in 100 people)

Chest pain

Rare: (may affect up to 1 in 1000 people)

Loss of consciousness or fainting
Severe chest pain due to angina
Feeling your heartbeat
Depression
Visual impairment
Blurred vision
Disorientation
Vertigo (a feeling of dizziness or “spinning”)
Presence of red blood cells in the urine
Reduced number of white blood cells in the blood
Reduced blood platelets, which increases risk of bleeding or bruising
psoriasis

If you experience any of the following non-serious side effects contact your doctor and/or seek medical advice:-

Uncommon: (may affect up to 1 in 100 people)

Irritability, nervousness, restlessness, insomnia, abnormal dreams, nightmares, anxiety, migraine, headache, lethargy (tiredness, lack of energy), restlessness associated with increased activity, dizziness, tiredness, high blood pressure, upper abdominal pain, indigestion, mouth ulceration, dry mouth, nausea, changes in the composition of your blood which could cause yellowing of the skin or eyes, inflammation of the skin, night sweats, itching, rash, dry skin, pain in extremities, menopausal symptoms, feeling of weakness, excretion of glucose in the urine, excess proteins in the urine, abnormal liver function and weight increase.

Rare: (may affect up to 1 in 1000 people)

Shingles, high level of fatty molecules in the blood, low serum calcium levels in the blood, low sodium levels in the blood, altered mood, aggression, agitation, crying, stress symptoms, early morning awakening, increased sex drive, depressed mood, memory impairment, disturbance in attention, dreamy state, restless legs syndrome, poor quality sleep, ‘pins and needles’ feeling, watery eyes, dizziness when standing or sitting, hot flushes, acid reflux, stomach disorder, blistering in the mouth, tongue ulceration, stomach upset, vomiting, abnormal bowel sounds, wind, excess saliva production, bad breath, abdominal discomfort, gastric disorder, inflammation of the stomach lining, eczema, skin rash, hand dermatitis, itchy rash, nail disorder, arthritis, muscle spasms, neck pain, night cramps, prolonged erection that might be painful, inflammation of the prostate gland, tiredness, pain, thirst, passing large volumes of urine, urinating during the night, increased liver enzymes, abnormal blood electrolytes and abnormal laboratory tests.

Frequency not known: (cannot be established from the available data)

Hypersensitivity reaction, swelling of mouth or tongue, swelling of the skin and abnormal milk secretion.

Drum roll…

Melatonin, 2 mg (Circadin). This makes me bearish on side effects of studied drugs. What do you think the side effects would be for an extract of bergamot? It hasn’t gone through the same process, hence it’s impossible to compare.

I also thought that flavonoids, all of those things are good. Then I realized these are chemicals, and I have no clue what they’re doing. To be clear I preferred medications over supplements once I thought I personally might had side effects from them. Green tea extracts come to mind right now and liver failure, where something considered healthy (green tea), can have serious side effects in extract form. Like I said, at least you know what you’re getting with statins. Some have muscle pain and can stop taking them. Some speculate one’s cognition might decrease in the long term. The way I see it, I think PCSK9 inhibitors or similar are probably safer, as they avoid muscle side effects, but they are so expensive.

#1843

Pontificating *

  • “to speak or express opinions in a pompous or dogmatic way”
#1844

The second study:

" Moreover, more than 40% of people eligible for statins are forbidden from the use of this therapy due to the side effects of statins including muscle discomfort, muscular weakness, or liver conditions and the breakdown of damaged skeletal muscle [14–16]."

Where is 40% from? I am looking in the citations.

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#1845

Nice research Joseph.

After several months of bergamot my HDL went up by 25% while LDL dropped 20%. My glucose dropped about 10% ( fasting).

I’ve seen similar results in friends. No side effects.

I’m upping my dose to 1500 mg. Maybe the brand matters. I use nourishing nutrients organic CB.

2 Likes
#1846

Contact the author’s POC*.

*Point of Contact: Guoqiang Xing, Email: moc.oohay@99gnixg.

#1847

You are really reaching. The adverse side effects of melatonin are uncommon, unlike statins where the side effects are very common. That is why millions of people take melatonin without a prescription whereas statins require a prescription. It baffles me why you would take such an illogical stance regarding bergamot. As I said, I am not promoting bergamot, so if you don’t like it don’t take it. If you have any proof that side effects from bergamot are common, I would be glad to hear it.

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#1848

These are the most common side effects of Crestor 5 mg, with highest probability.

Between 1/10 and 1/100:
Headache, stomach pain, constipation, feeling sick, muscle pain, feeling weak, dizziness.
An increase in the amount of protein in the urine - this usually returns to normal on its own without having to stop taking your Crestor tablets (only Crestor 40 mg).
Diabetes. This is more likely if you have high levels of sugars and fats in your blood, are overweight and have high blood pressure. Your doctor will monitor you while you are taking this medicine.

Between 1/100 and 1/1000:
Rash, itching or other skin reactions.
An increase in the amount of protein in the urine - this usually returns to normal on its own without having to stop taking your Crestor tablets (only Crestor 5 mg, 10 mg and 20 mg).

Melatonin requires a prescription in many european countries, which is where the side effect profile is from. My point is statins has such a list, bergamot doesn’t, which makes statins (and even melatonin) look worse than bergamot. This is for those who conclude that bergamot is safer because it doesn’t have a list of side effects.

This is my point. We don’t know. There isn’t an examine.com page for it either.