Agetron
#37
If you don’t mind sharing, how long after your last high rapa dose would your heart rate stabilize?
It was several days and blood pressure was at 148 to 150 over about 84.
My normal is 127 over 74.
Since being on 12 mg weekly blood pressure is back in normal range.
Took my 2 mg dose with fresh GFJ last night. Heart pounding about 6 hours… still have ringing in my ears. … tinnitus. The ringing subsidies after a day or two.
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medaura
#38
2 mg or 12 mg? Just making sure that last one isn’t a typo. Are you back to weekly doses or spaced out every 10 days?
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Agetron
#39
Yes, to clarify… I took one 2 mg sirolimus pill… with 5 fluid ounces of fresh GFJ.
Based on my LABCORP test- I get a 6 times multiplication of the dose. So 12 mg is in my blood.
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Did you need a doctor to request the test at Labcorp? or can an individual arrange for it?
tongMD
#41
Ritalin has other effects and there are somewhat individual variable responses to drugs for ADHD.
ADHD involves dopamine, noradrenergic, serotonergic, and cholinergic pathways - in that lens - it’s more explanatory why it can be calming to some. Certain stimulants used in depression/anxiety disorders ie bupropion MOA is inhibiting the reuptake of dopamine and norepinephrine.
medaura
#43
Oh, so you actually take 2 mg pills and when you say 12 mg, that’s “net” dose after the multiplier effect of the GFJ which you’ve determined to be 6x for you based on your lab work. I could have sworn, from reading these threads, that you meant you took 6 mg (In pills) + GFJ (so an equivalent dose of 36 mg)
So this is the sweet spot for you? No side effects (aside from the ear ringing and temporarily elevated heart rate which subside within a day)?
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Agetron
#44
You were right in past posts…from April 2022 to end of November 2022…I was doing 6mg to 8mg with GFJ… getting 36mg to 50 mg.
When my Glycan biological age rose… when tested end of November .
I dropped to weekly 2mg and GFJ for 12 mg total. Has been my sweet spot past 2 months. Getting ready to retest with Trudiagnostic in a few days…
No side effects that are longer than a few days…ringing in ears, heart rate up…higher b/p.
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Everyone - if you are tracking HRV and RHR (Resting Heart Rate). While people are reporting a reduction in HRV after dosing with rapamycin - can you please report on longer term trends with regard to HRV? Also - if you have taken a break from rapamycin for any reason - do you see any changes in HRV during the time off rapamycin (and how much of a change - does it go back to where it was prior to rapamycin, or go higher or lower from the median prior to rapamycin?
Also - if you were tracking HRV and RHR, did you have a trend in any specific direction (e.g. up or down), similar to Mike’s report below?
I’m also reaching out to the researchers doing the Monkey Rapamycin study to see if they have any data or understanding of this metric as it relates to rapamycin.
And - general data on HRV and RHR from Mike Lustgarten:
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medaura
#46
This is preliminary data only, but I stretched out my last dosage of rapa to 10 days instead of my usual weekly. During the last three days past my missed weekly dose my resting heart rate and HRV normalized. I took rapa at that point, but at 5 instead of my usual 6 mg (still with GFJ though) and no changes happened to my resting heart rate or HRV. Both continued to trend in the right direction. So after my last dose, instead of their usual dip in the wrong direction, they continued to improve.
I’ve also been exercising a bit more so that could be a confounding variable. And I have added a heavy dosage of supplements, so again, not apples to apples compared to the status quo ante, but I’ll stick to every 10 days dosage at 5 mg + GFJ if the trend continues.
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DMac
#47
Started Rapa in Oct (maybe late Sep) - 1mg increase weekly till I hit 6mgs. Stayed at 6mg for about 3-4 weeks. Then increased to 8mg.
HRV (while still low) def increased on Rapa (no other changes in diet, exercise, supplements, medication, etc.).
Maybe 6mgs is my ‘sweet spot’.
Oh, and resting HR:
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Some good data on this thread.
I spent 12 months trialing various dosages of Rapamune and found anything over 6mg/wk had a (loosely) dose dependent negative effect on RHR and HRV.
@medaura as a petite female I would strongly caution against using GFJ. Based on @Agetron prior analysis you could be taking the equivalent of >30mg!
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A screen scrape from elite
I took Rapamycin on 8th Jan just before the start of this. I am male aged 62 and the main variation is caused by alcohol.
The screen scrape from fitbit for HR/RHR a) is not daily b) I am not a fan of their algorithm, also is primarily influenced by whether I am drinking alcohol or not. Fitbit currently says my rhr is 52, but I averaged 54 bpm whilst asleep. I am not really sure that is right. Hence I am not going to provide a screen scrape from fitbit.
I measure my HR in the morning using a polar H10 and elite whilst lying in bed (and actually whilst measuring my hr and bp because that takes less time than the 150 seconds for HRV hence I can take the bp and record it in the time between starting elite and getting the result.)
As so far I have only taken Rapamycin twice I am not sure what the above adds, but it is useful to have data to compare where people are not taking Rapamycin weekly.
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Whatever these cardiac effects are about, they do seem to be dose related , so clearly finding the sweet spot is the smart thing to do.
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Agreed. I even think RHR could be used to optimise dosage (HRV seems too inconsistent from my data). Keep all variables constant and increase weekly rapa dosage until you see a significant (>3bpm) increase.
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It does seem, that in certain people, rapamycin is functioning as a sympathomimetic at higher doses. Makes no sense but it is what it is.
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Elite attempts to determine whether the balance is towards the sympathetic or parasympathetic system. I have recorded this (although I don’t know how good it is) and could look it up for the two days I have taken Rapa, but I am not sure this information is any use because other factors affect this outcome as well - including particularly how well one has slept and alcohol consumption.
I have no special knowledge, just n = 1 observances. I have been off of Rapamycin for about 4 weeks and my RHR has returned to my pre-Rapa value. My HRV has also recovered. I have had a bad headache sometimes if the dosage gets too high (meaning the combination of the dose that I took and whatever I have eaten that affects the bioavailability). Last time I took 3 mg and that night I happened to be wearing a CGM that gave a low glucose alarm 4 times (low glucose alarm has never happened before). I also had a headache. I am not diabetic and don’t take any medication that should give me low glucose levels. Anyway, I think if you use wearables to get real time data and you get the dosage high enough, you will see impacts. I won’t take 3 mg again.
If I had your BP data and saw it go up, that would give me pause.
I also have seen a number of supplements or foods (besides grapefruit) that are reported to affect the bioavailability. Taking it with grapefruit has been demonstrated to increase the bioavailability by up to 350%. So, in practice, your actual blood levels could be quite different from one week to another depending upon your diet or supplements.
HRV seems to be tied to overall general health and sleep time. I am confused by the screenshot that says “Sleep 11 h 50 min” What is your average sleep time? Low HRV is associated with short or low-quality sleep time.
