#49

Watch out for that . Do a lot of research on Post-finasteride syndrome. Not worth it is my takeaway.

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#50

Thank you for the reasoned and imformative reply!

#51

Post Finasteride Syndrome has no actual clinical research indicating it exists at all. Even observational trials have mixed results with some men on finasteride actually having lower rates of persistent ED than men not on finasteride.

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#52

It took be about 6 months to feel normal and have normal function after I quit. Happy for anyone who can take it, it works wonders for many people.

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#53

Although anecdotal, good information on your experience. I don’t understand why someone would take Finasteride with better options available.

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#54

Hi Ellie, You’re running a farm in rural Oregon by yourself at 80 - you’re doing pretty well!

I tend to think that while evolution may not be “profligate of biological energy reserves”, I don’t think that evolution cares much about the body after procreation. You’re probably aware of the disposable soma theory:

But lets not digress too much on this thread (start a new thread if a post here triggers a new conversation)…

And - if you want to review a long, and in-depth discussion of cholesterol I recommend you check out this thread: Rapamycin and risk of cardiovascular disease

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#55

Statins can do many things for any number of reasons that have nothing to do with cholesterol.

Let’s say you do everything right from birth, all the right nutrients at the right time including exercise, sunlight etc… you don’t live forever right? Do you expect the next guy who does everything right from birth to live the exact same number of years? He has a different code, he’s a different machine. Now mix in the fact that it’s impossible to do everything right since we don’t even know what it is.

Things are so much more complicated than just hacking cholesterol.

I’m a farmer too. Tillage does dozens of things good and bad. People want to just look at the good. Or some just look at the bad. Very hard to weigh. Bring in a new technology that fixes all the bad and we might have something.

I really like the Cavidex cyclodextrin solution. They only pick up small dense LDL and turn foam cells back into macrophages. It doesn’t reduce all the cholesterol, only the bad stuff. Brilliant. Good things are coming. Soon we will stop arguing about this.

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#56

Bring in a new technology that fixes all the bad and we might have something.

Perfect is the enemy of good. If you wait for the perfect anti-aging drug with zero side effects (not even imagined ones that many people on the internet get) you’ll be long dead before it comes out (if it ever comes out).
The net benefit is all that really matters in the end.

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#57

Has anyone any opinion on this?

mendelsohn2016.pdf (75.1 KB)

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Statin use inhibits vitamin K2
#58

There is a Peter Attia Drive great podcast about rapamycin with Matt Kaeberlein where they discuss the protein conundrum. Peter acknowledges that animal protein rich in leucine and isoleucine is a big time activator of M-tor pathway. He struggles with that fact but feels like the low protein can lead to sarcopenia.
However the observational studies of Centenarians in the blue zones revealed that they solved this conundrum by natural selection.
Like most of things life, this is a Goldilock situation. In order to reduce senescence and inflammation one must minimize stimulating M-tor pathway, but not necessarily completely inhibit it. Centenarians in blue zones eat 95% plant based diet, but do eat animal protein. They eat low calorie, high plant protein foods with small amounts of animal protein on average per day. I am guessing (very rough guess) 20% of their total protein intake. Plant protein unlike animal protein is low in BCAA’s and doesn’t stimulate M-tor in the same fashion.
Personally I strive for about 1 gram/pound of protein per day which 70-80% comes from plant sources (whole grain, legumes, nuts and seeds) and I restrict animal protein to about 4 hour window a day - more or less. Some days I will eat more animal protein if wife makes something special.
I exercise about 10-15 hours a week, consume 4-5 tsp of Matcha green tea and 1800 mg of curcumin a day - all of which are selective or complete m-tor pathway inhibitors.
I disagree with a comment above who said that plant protein is not tasty. My tempeh sauteed in olive oil and spices, served on Ezekiel bread with Watercress, mayo, mustard and tomato is way more delicious than boring deli meat.

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#59

In one of blue zone (southern Italy), I know for a fact that they eat a lot of animal protein (included here fish). Having one two meals per day either meat or fish of some sort (most likely over 50% of calories coming from animal protein) but I am also aware that people in other regions blue zones consume more of a plant-based diet. So, the fact that these people live longer may not be linked directly with just what they eat (mainly plant or animal diets/proteins). Many other factors at play and in some cases including even weather (this case dry & sunny) plus they stay active/work well into their 90’s or later. Limiting calorie intake to a normal level does help in being healthy IMO (plant or animal may or may not be as important, even though animal protein sits better with me)

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#60

Your outlier does not disprove my point in any way. Maybe people in that particular zone are especially active and offset the deleterious m-tor activation via exercise more than in other zones. The zones most dense in Centenarians are in fact 95% plant based. Focusing on plant protein along with activity may ward off sarcopenia while not over-stimulating the M-tor pathway. Moreover plant protein comes with a lot of other benefits such as extra fiber and phytonutrients. Just google Genistein, show me a study where a beef steak has anti-tumor activity. Not I wouldn’t occasionally eat one, but I am better off eating Minestrone soup on regular basis, just like people in Sardinia do on daily basis.

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#61

I don’t mean to go back and forth on this subject, but I think there is still much we don’t know exactly why some zones or people if you will live much longer than the rest. As for you having the minestrone soup and me having the steak, I will take you on that offer :slight_smile: However I’ll do it reluctantly since i like both. How about I’ll have my minestrone and the steak and you stick with your minestrone hahaa. you better wish you never crossed a carnivore if you are plant-based guy though :). But I do concur strength does not always translate into longevity.

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#62

I am cat 1 mountain bike racer in a SingleSpeed category. I am 49 and podium on most races, beating out much younger carnivores. I am 510, 150 lbs pounds and can squat 3 sets of 10 reps of 380 lbs. I don’t go for size in the gym to keep my weight low but rather just strength. So I am not sure why you would imply that one cannot get strong on adequate plant protein mixed with some animal protein daily? Protein is the only macro I really keep a track of. Obviously I am case study but there is no preponderance of evidence in clinical studies that favors one type of protein over the other for muscle building, as long as plant protein is carefully cultivated.

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#63

I hear you but when you get this Doc saying best protein is red meat, what do I know?

RED MEAT: The Single BEST Food for Healing and Repair - YouTube

I’m tempted to believe though that a mainly meat diet may not be as good as a balanced mainly plant diet for longevity (I only count anything over 105 years old as living more than normal since I know a few people who are in their late 90’s and a few that passed at 98-100 without doing anything in particular to live that long. One of them was a regular drinker, 3-5 drinks of brandy daily, and was also fat but ate only one meal a day meat+rice and beans etc …) . However, I do think fish protein is extremely healthy and good for longevity.

#64

That sandwich does sounds very tasty!

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#65

1-s2.0-S1550413123003741-main.pdf (7.2 MB)

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#66

Sorry to hit you with this old post but I am interested in your thinking of down regulation of mTOR everyday. I try to boost mTOR on my anabolic days (24 hours post resistance training) and only down regulate in my “post recovery” periods (25-36/48 hours post resistance training).

And you do much more exercise than I do. I assume a big chunk of it is endurance exercise which is thought to be catabolic. What can you share?

Thanks

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#67

Back to the topic at hand: FMD

This talk is very interesting. I had long ago moved on from fasting as anything more than calorie control (which I do 1x/week) but now I’m not so sure. From a muscle mass retention during weight loss perspective, FMD (or just fasting?) seems like a path forward based on this talk. I realize that this is going against Attia the Great but I’ll live with it.

Thoughts? I’m particularly interested in evidence to the contrary.

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#68

I have not read the previous posts in this lengthy thread. I’m not sure I grasped your question correctly. In my specific experience (13 cycles carried out), during a 5-days cycle of FMD I’ve lost form 2 to 3 kg bodyweight, some of it adiposity, some of it muscle mass, in what percentage I do not know.
I always used to do some resistance exercise, in moderate dosages. No cardio. Usually lots of naps.
My starting BMI was from 24 to 26 adiposity from about 12 to 15%.
The only time I’ve done a water only 5 days fast, when I was about 22, I lost 5 kg of bodyweight, much of it muscle mass. So there is an advantage with FMD with regards to muscle mass conservation and a huge advantage with regards to adherence, at least as far as my system is concerned. Some people have fewer issues with weight loss and compliance with a water only fast.
Peter Attia used to suggest a keto version of the FMD which I also tried, with satisfaction.
I never tried to go beyond 5 days but it would have been easy, on the fifth day my hunger was down and my stomach was sick of bland zucchini with nothing on them but salt and pepper.

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