Ulf
#310
On both occasions where I could find dosages of epitalon injected in trials, 0.1 mg = 100 mcg of epitalon has been muscularly injected, i.e. one hundredth of the 10 mg stated to be epitalon on the vials and likewise one hundredth of the dose of epithalamin 10 mg that is usually injected. This seems quite clear, from the Khavinson sources, as below.
Is the 10 mg said to be epitalon in fact only 0.1 mg, with 99% being fillers? It´s one way of reconciling this. .
From the article I linked to:
Epithalamin (Epinorm) – peptide complex with molecular weight 1000-
5000 Da extracted from cattle pineal gland. The preparation is produced in flacons (ampoules) by 10 mg for intramuscular administration.
Course of treatment takes 5-10 days (1 injection daily).
Epitalon – Ala-Glu-Asp-Gly tetrapeptide. The preparation is produced in ampoules by 100 µg for intramuscular administration. Course of treatment takes 10 days (1 injection daily).
From a slide presentation by Khavinson: “The same effect was achieved by administering a significantly lower course dose of Epitalon (0.1 mg) as compared to Epithalamin (50 mg), which indicates the higher biological activity of the synthetic tetrapeptide”.
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I’ve been trying to spend less time on this site, so missed this, but Janoshik has said that LPS risk is very low - he has not seen it - for peptides. I don’t know about Chinese rHGH though because of eColi…
The peptide testing group that I’m in has a multi-vendor sterility test going on.
It’s rare for people to have injection site reactions/infections), which you might expect to see if there were bacteria in the vial, or reactions to the mannitol filler. The truly cautious will use a 0.22 micron syringe filter.
There are some peptide testing labs that are very bad about reporting anything other than the concentration of the expected substance, but Janoshik has been blind tested and does. He’s the only one I trust.
A rare type of impurity is accidental mixing of two peptides in the same batch. I saw this happen once out of about 500 tests.
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Albina
#312
Yes, we finished the course, barely😂 The reason I say that is because Actovegin injections are extremely painful. Feels like someone punched you so hard you muscle feels numb with pain or pain and cramping at the same time. HOWEVER. I will do it again. It’s the best thing that healed my husband’s back and his jiu jitsu injury. As far as energy, I feel like I went to being the same energy-wise. I’m back to needing my coffee, or sleep😏
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Davin8r
#313
Is the idea that one draws up the full bottle (3 ml for instance) and then filters the full amount into a brand new sterile vial? Or is there a way to use a filter each time a peptide is injected?
My understanding from other posts on this site is that compounded rapamycin powder does not survive the stomach and does not last long enough to be absorbed in the small intestine. However, the compounded rapamycin sold by www.agelessrx.com loses only about 70% of bioavailability (possibly because it is in a compressed pill that dissolves slowly?), which can be compensated for by taking about 3 times as much as commercial rapamycin tablets. Check out “Safety and efficacy of rapamycin on healthspan metrics after one year: PEARL Trial1 Results,” Girish Harinath et al., posted August 26, 2024.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2024.08.21.24312372v1
There are posts on this study in other threads on this site.
Out of an abundance of caution, I personally prefer to take compounded rapamycin because it can be obtained without titanium dioxide, dyes, talc, poloxamer 188, polyethylene glycol, etc.
I think the 70% loss you are referring to is in relation to the normal Rapamycin pill. Since the coated pill has only 10% absorption and the compounded loses 70%, you are left with only 3% absorption. The enteric coated pill has always proven to be more bioavailable than compounded.
Yes, what you wrote sounds right and like what I was trying to convey (unfortunately I didn’t say bioavailability relative to what - I meant relative to generic). The paper I referenced says “our bioavailability study has previously suggested a 3.5x reduction in potency for compounded rapamycin relative to generic…”
That bioavailability study is the study I should have referenced. It is
“The bioavailability of compounded and generic rapamycin in normative aging individuals: A retrospective study and review with clinical implications,” Girish Harinath et al., preprint
A quote:
“…a higher bioavailability per milligram of rapamycin was noted for the generic formulation (compounded averaged 0.287 (28.7%) bioavailability relative to generic rapamycin in (ng/mL) / mg rapamycin).”
In this paper, subjects were given 5, 10, or 15 mg of compounded rapamycin or else were given 2, 3, 6, or 8 mg of generic rapamycin. (to compensate for difference in relative bioavailability).
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Karel1
#317
Epitalon - the tetrapeptide - has a mol. weight slightly over 390 (wikipedia)
I have asked several AI databases.
Only Gemini gave a straight answer"
Epitalon vs. Epithalamin: A Comparative Dose
Epitalon and Epithalamin are both synthetic peptides derived from a natural peptide found in the pineal gland. While they share similarities in their structure and function, there are some differences in their recommended dosages.
Epitalon
Typical dosage: 5 mg daily, administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly.
Research: Studies have primarily used this dosage in human trials.
Epithalamin
Typical dosage: 5 mg daily, administered subcutaneously or intramuscularly.
Research: Similar to Epitalon, most studies have used this dosage.
Note: The recommended dosage may vary depending on the specific health condition being treated and individual factors. It’s essential to consult with a healthcare professional before starting any new supplement or medication.
Key Points:
Similar dosages: Both Epitalon and Epithalamin are typically administered in the same dosage of 5 mg daily.
Individual variations: The optimal dosage may differ based on individual needs and medical advice.
Professional guidance: Always consult with a healthcare provider before starting any new supplement or medication.
Disclaimer: This information is for general knowledge purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Please consult with a healthcare professional for personalized guidance.
On the other hand:
" Potency: Epitalon appears to be more potent than Epithalamin, as evidenced by the much lower dosage used in animal studies"
If rapamycin is an example of translating mice studies to humans then obviously this indicates a much lower dosage of Epitalon.
Just as with rapamycin, we don’t know the proper dosage.
Based on anecdotal reports from various websites many people are taking it in the 5 -10 mg range.
From what I have read 1mg daily of Epitalon should be more than sufficient.
Does anyone have a more definitive answer?
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Yes, new vial. I’ll be doing this going forward.
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Of course a desk top peptide machine is not used to mass produce peptides 
The point was… the process of making peptides is the same, just the scale is different as is the machinery and the substrates.
Since DMF is well known it’s super easy to detect. Same for any of the other chemicals that are used in the process. There are no unknowns in peptide mfg. If a testing company can’t detect those accurately they should be in another business.
Fortunately the company I deal with is a pharma company, not a fly by night company with a desktop machine
They mfg chemo drugs and a variety of other drugs, research chemicals and reagents and more… I’ve been doing business with them for over 3 years, buying raw materials for our supplement business (which passed all the independent testing) and cosmetic peptides before I decided to try their injectable peptides. I would not expose my family, my friends (over 20 people that matter to me) to anything harmful. After a year of using their peptides every one we’ve tried has been as advertised.
As they say, YMMV
Ulf
#322
AI data with equal dose of epithalon to epithalamin is wrong because its based on what certain pundits say which in turn is based on misstated Russian data a hundredfold.wrong.
Epithalon is ca 100 times more powerful than epithalamin.
Here is the answer I got from the Institute that developed Epithalon, translated from Russian (btw Irina made clear she does not want to be contacted anymore)
Colleague, good afternoon.,
To answer your question, in a clinical study, patients were given 10 mg of Epithalamin or 0.1 mg of Epithalon.
This is due to the fact that the effect of the short peptide Epithalon at a dose of 0.1 mg is similar to that of Epithalamin at a dose of 10 mg.
These data were first obtained in a study of the mechanisms of action of polypeptides and short peptides in animals.
Sincerely,
Irina Popovich-
Doctor of Biological Sciences, Head of the Laboratory of Peptide Pharmacology
St. Petersburg Institute of Bioregulation and
gerontology
Originating from the institute I also got this:
Why don´t we have gravely ill people from all who have taken 10 mg over years based on the wrong data? Because epithalon cannot be overdosed. The body uses what it can and discards the rest.
The suppliers of course are happy to sell too big doses.
I will make my dosing decision when my thymalin arrives next week, but as of now I am leaning towards 1 mg per day. Why not 0.1 mg?
-
- A possibly irrational fear of being too low - could epithalon in effect be less than 100 times stronger?
- Compensate for possibly less efficacy in the subQ injections I am planning instead of the intramuscular used in the protocol
- influenced by a peptide forum where people who discovered the data falsehood reduced from 5-10 to one mg “to be safe” (not risk being too low)
- I purchased epithalon for 10 mg dosing for 18 months and 0.1 mg dosing would leave me with most long past expiration date.
- All underpinned by overdosing with a factor of 10 being as riskfree as overdosing a hundredfold (with a marginal cost).
What remains to investigate is the frequency. 10 days 1-2 times a year is the protocol but . I am seeing new protocols using epithalon many more months per year, possibly in particular for people with markers corresponding to old age e.g. in telomere length. Will reach out to two peptide-knowledgable persons I have come to respect (who understand the misstated data issue, as opposed to the more known Campbell/Seeds etc who havn´t done their home work). If I come up with anything I will report back. Am ordering a hgh-quality telomere test.
As for the thymalin, all is clear. 10 mg/day intramuscularly. The original.
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I’m glad to see this information on Epithalon dosing. I started “low” at 3.0mg per day for 10 days but as people asked me “why such a low dose” I didn’t have a solid answer other than I had read the peptide was the active ingredient in the “raw extract” which should inform us that a lower dose would be just as effective. Now we know how much lower!
So I erred on the side of caution. Also good to know my concern about too much is not a concern.
I’ll cut back my dose from 3.0mg to 200mcg, yes still higher then the 100mcg but as noted the excess would be excreted so no harm, no foul there. Just want to ensure this old body is getting “enough”
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Perhaps a little like some B vitamins.
In any case, if Epithalon is 100 times more effective than Epithalamin, then Eptithalon is a very affordable peptide.
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After my experience with Semax, I have decided to progress to some injectables.
Based on my age and goals I have decided to start with Epitalon and BPC-157.
I am planning on taking both on the same days.
Any reason not to?
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I don’t know of any reason not to.
I take Epitalon (10 consecutive days) and Gonadorelin (4 mornings a week) first thing in the morning, then about 30 minutes later the BPC+TB500 combo.
I’ve not experienced any issues do that.
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PBJ
#327
Well, BPC and TB500 have never completed trials or been approved for use in humans. There’s that, and the fact that angiogenesis is a cancer risk.
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Ulf
#328
Is injectable GHK-Cu better also for the skin, compared to the GHK-Cu creme?
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I have not used the inject-able version but it would be more effective. Not sure how systemic it would be but it should be the same as all inject-able peptides, both systemic and localized.
The BPC157+TB500 combination is very effective systemically but when you inject closer to the injury site that does make a difference.
I’ve been making a skin care product for 3 years that contains 2.0% GHK-cu, 1.5% Hyaluronic Acid and 7% Argan oil. Sharing with friends and family and have a number of paying clients for it. Pretty much everyone who uses it is amazed by the benefits of this simple 11 compound lotion. Most skin care products have 30 to 40 ingredients.
So we’ve had good results from topical GHK-cu, I’d expect even better results with inject-able.
There is a difference between cosmetic peptides and inject-able. Related to sterility. Topicals have a lower bar as one would expect.
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BPC-157 is a favorite of many, but I’m one of the oddballs who now gets anhedonia with it. I noticed just a little bit the first two cycles, but the third time it hit very suddenly after about 3 days and it took me 3 weeks and bromantane to get back to normal.
Most have nothing but positive experiences to report. I seem to be an outlier with several things.
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