Omega 3 makes me depressed: why?

[CronosTempi]

I do Carlson’s Elite Omega-3 once a week, and Pharmepa Restore Pure EPA, twice a week, wild caught salmon from TJ’s once a week - FWIW, never noticed any effects of any kind. Peter Attia uses Carlson’s I believe.

I wonder if the issue for you is the omega-3, or some kind of interaction between the omega-3 and something else you’re taking. Perhaps googling for “omega-3 interactions” might be interesting?

[adssx]

Thanks I’ll give a try to Carlson.

@CronosTempi

I wonder if the issue for you is the omega-3, or some kind of interaction between the omega-3 and something else you’re taking.

I considered it but:

1. I couldn’t find any interactions with what I take.
2. I noticed the problem years ago when I wasn’t taking any other drugs.
3. There are so many reports (including 2 others just here just today!) that it’s unlikely all these people are using the same drug or supplement.

So it must be that some people for whatever reason are intolerant to DHA

[Satchel]

I have sedation from Omega 3 and creatine , but not from each one seperately. Lasts 4h or so

[Joseph_Lavelle]

Break open the capsules to make sure they are not rancid. Taste the oil inside.

[Bicep]

I suffered from depression for years, on and off. I have no idea why, but it’s not attitude. It’s biochemical. My attitude has never changed. It stopped years ago when I got the my first sperti vitamin D lamp.

It’s hard to cover all your skin with one little lamp in 5 minutes, so I have 3 now and use them simultaneously after my shower when naked. I also use NIR photobiomodulation at the same time, which they say is the wrong time of day to do it but that’s when I’m available. I think if you use it you can probably use the DHA too.

N=1.

[adssx]

Yes I did that, they’re perfect.

By the way, some people suggest that DHA might be at best neutral and at worst detrimental and that for cardiovascular health only EPA matters:

• Omega-3 fatty acids and cardiovascular prevention: is the jury still out? 2023: “The differences in these trial designs have led some to believe that combining EPA + DHA may down-modulate the beneficial clinical effects of EPA treatment alone; however, the differences in these trial findings may be explained by other reasons (below). The EPA monotherapy studies may show benefit, but there are concerns about adverse metabolic effects of the mineral oil comparator. The differences between the EPA and EPA + DHA trials may be attributable to (a) insufficient dose, (b) O3FA species, (c) the comparator, (d) the patient population and, most importantly, (e) the omega-3 index was not measured and thus the opportunity to determine treatment effect and adequacy of tissue dosing was lost.”
• Should We “RESPECT EPA” More Now? EPA and DHA for Cardiovascular Risk Reduction 2023 “Based on available evidence, EPA may work better for CV risk than DHA and EPA combined. The benefit of EPA seems to be dose dependent, though higher doses may have more side effects.”
• Eicosapentaenoic acid vs. docosahexaenoic acid for the prevention of cardiovascular disease 2023: “The totality of evidence suggests EPA alone, administered in a highly-purified, high-dose form, improves cardiovascular outcomes among patients with elevated triglycerides at high cardiovascular risk, but EPA and DHA together does not.”
• Higher docosahexaenoic acid levels lower the protective impact of eicosapentaenoic acid on long-term major cardiovascular events 2023: “Higher levels of EPA, but not DHA, are associated with a lower risk of MACE. When combined with EPA, higher DHA blunts the benefit of EPA and is associated with a higher risk of MACE in the presence of low EPA.”
• Differentiating EPA from EPA/DHA in cardiovascular risk reduction 2022: “Mixed EPA + DHA therapies failed to demonstrate consistent reduction in CV events. Only EPA alone plus statin reduced major CV events, as shown in REDUCE-IT and JELIS.”
• Heart health: Not all omega-3s are equal 2021
• Omega-3 fatty acids and the heart: New evidence, more questions 2021
• Effect of omega-3 fatty acids on cardiovascular outcomes: A systematic review and meta-analysis 2021 “The meta-analysis showed higher RR reductions with EPA monotherapy (0.82 [0.68–0.99]) than with EPA + DHA (0.94 [0.89–0.99]) for cardiovascular mortality, non-fatal MI (EPA: 0.72 [0.62–0.84]; EPA+DHA: 0.92 [0.85–1.00]), CHD events (EPA: 0.73 [0.62–0.85]; EPA+DHA: 0.94 [0.89–0.99]), as well for MACE and revascularization. Omega-3 FA increased incident AF (RR, 1.26 [1.08–1.48]). EPA monotherapy vs. control was associated with a higher risk of total bleeding (RR: 1.49 [1.20–1.84]) and AF (RR, 1.35 [1.10–1.66]).”

However EPA seems associated with more AF:

• Eicosapentaenoic Acid and the Outcomes in Older Patients Undergoing Atrial Fibrillation Ablation 2024: “The EPA/AA was associated with AF recurrence and MACE after ablation in patients with AF aged ≥65 years.”
• Changes in eicosapentaenoic acid and docosahexaenoic acid and risk of cardiovascular events and atrial fibrillation: A secondary analysis of the OMEMI trial 2022: “Greater on-treatment increases in EPA were associated with lower risk of MACE and higher risk of new-onset AF.”

[Joseph_Lavelle]

@adssx What I’ve heard and read is that DHA is important for brain health

Here’s a study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523055235#:~:text=DHA%20has%20been%20shown%20to,and%20olfactory%20responses%20(3).

[adssx]

The evidence is unfortunately weak for DHA and brain health. Cardiovascular health is an important factor for brain health so if EPA is better for that, I’m team EPA until proven otherwise.

[adssx]

Confirmed: Supplementation with oil rich in eicosapentaenoic acid, but not in docosahexaenoic acid, improves global cognitive function in healthy, young adults: results from randomized controlled trials 2021 (note that the paper you linked above was from the same journal but 2013)

Ciao DHA.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

I’ve been upping my fish oil lately now that I’m taking aspirin with it to get proresolving mediators. About 1g each EPA and DHA. I feel great.

[adssx]

I guess it’s the usual “Everyone is different”. Have you ever measured your omega-3 index? If you go at the end of the report and calculate your DHA/EPA ratio, what is it? Mine is 4 (4 times more DHA than EPA). But I don’t know if this has any kind of clinical significance (most papers only focus on the omega-3 index and this 2022 OmegaQuant blog post says the jury is still out on EPA vs DHA)

[adssx]

Of note, the boss disagrees:

Citing: Circulating Docosahexaenoic Acid and Risk of All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality 2024

We focused on DHA in this meta-analysis as it was the only specific omega-3 fatty acid level available in the UKBB because nuclear magnetic resonance technology was not able to reliably measure plasma EPA in this population. Blood levels of DHA but not EPA show strong statistically significant inverse associations with risk of Alzheimer disease. On the other hand, EPA monotherapy has been shown to be effective in reducing risk for major adverse CV events. No similar trials of DHA monotherapy have been undertaken. Levels of EPA+DHA have been shown to be inversely associated with mortality; however, whether EPA or DHA is more strongly associated with improved life expectancy remains uncertain.

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What’s interesting, here are my OmegaQuant results (before starting omega 3 supplementation):

• Omega-3 index: 5.37%
• EPA: 0.49%
• DHA: 3.06%

So if I understand correctly, I’m already well above the top quintile for DHA (2.48%) but my omega-3 index is average (“the mean intake of DHA+EPA in the United States is only approximately 100 mg/d and the mean omega-3 index is approximately 5.4%”). Could it be that people like us @Davin8r @hamida_abdenour who experienced depressive symptoms from DHA already have high DHA? Have you done the test? If true, then one should supplement in EPA and DHA according to the test results to reach DHA > 2.48% and omega-3 index > 8%? Wdyt @DrFraser?

[Joseph_Lavelle]

My Omega index is 10.32%. I don’t see the breakdown you describe. Perhaps I didn’t pay enough…

[adssx]

Ah yes the basic test just gives the omega-3 index. The “complete test” gives the breakdown EPA vs DHA vs ALA, here’s a sample report: https://omegaquant.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/OmegaQuant_O3complete_v15Dec2020.pdf

[DrFraser]

I goal for 8% Omega 3 index in those with no ApoE4’s and 10% in those with an ApoE4.

AI’s review of does EPA convert to DHA, which is relevant - is very little. So it is important to do the OmegaQuant Plus rather than basic to see DHA and EPA. I usually am using the Omega Check through Lab Corp, which is $69 and goes to Cleveland Clinic, takes a month, but gets all the details on everything.

Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) can convert to docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) in the human body, but this conversion is generally limited and inefficient. The process involves a series of enzymatic reactions that elongate and desaturate EPA to form DHA. However, the conversion rate is typically low, often less than 5% in most individuals, and some studies suggest it may be even lower, around 0.1-1% 2.

Several factors can influence this conversion efficiency. Gender plays a role, with women generally having slightly higher conversion rates than men. 年龄 can also affect conversion, as efficiency may decrease with age. Genetic variations can impact an individual’s ability to convert EPA to DHA, and dietary factors, such as a high intake of omega-6 fatty acids, can inhibit the conversion process. Additionally, certain health conditions may affect conversion efficiency.

Due to the low conversion rate, it is often recommended to obtain DHA directly from dietary sources or supplements, especially for individuals with increased needs, such as pregnant women or those with specific health conditions. Both EPA and DHA are found in fatty fish, algae, and some fortified foods. Supplements often contain both EPA and DHA in varying ratios.

While EPA has its own health benefits, DHA is particularly important for brain and eye development and function. The limited conversion of EPA to DHA underscores the importance of obtaining both fatty acids through diet or supplementation when indicated. Understanding these metabolic processes helps in making informed decisions regarding omega-3 fatty acid supplementation to achieve optimal health outcomes.

[adriank]

How about try using Hemp oil instead?

[adssx]

“Experts estimate that as little as 5-21% of ALA converts into EPA, and a mere 1-9% to DHA.” (source)

[adriank]

True but your body only converts what it needs… and everyone reacts differently and this might be a better path for you. I take hemp oil because I do not want any mercury from fish oil. That is why it is simple for me.

[DrFraser]

You can use algae based supplements to avoid mercury, but also brands like Nordic Naturals make sure there is no mercury in their product. The problem with hemp oil is that it is indeed rich in ALA, but very little of this gets converted to EPA/DHA, especially if you have significant omega 6 fatty acids in the diet.

It isn’t cheap, but I’d suggest an Omega 3 index would be in order and if >8% with Hemp awesome! However, my experience is that almost everyone will be suboptimal without direct supplementation or a diet very rich in fish.

[hamida_abdenour]

I got this kind of depressing mode with a sensitivity to some emotional ideas on 2 occasions basically when i started taking omegas 3 (EPH+ DHA) and the second period was after retaking them after stopping for 21 days because i was on work mission and i forget to bring some omega3s with me and in both situations i noticed the effects were less if i take them at night so maybe it’s transient period when the brain get high levels after consumption?