Mike Lustgarten did that interesting experiment with B6 in the inflammation pathway for creating NAD. (From Tryptophan). I had a look at the gene expression for this and it does appear something where the gene expression of one of the enzymes is problematic with aging (interestingly at the translation stage rather than the transcription stage).
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I am unsure if the increase in NAD+ blood levels really has any impact on my health. Maybe it does, maybe not.
I have some concerns about it, but I see also benefits:
- See “combined methabolic activators” study. Any Virus has a negative impact on NAD+ blood levels so we have robust safety_studies that it may help recovering from covid or any other virus caused desease. (for a safety study thats a really strong evidence!)
- we have robust data that any B3-variant positivtly effects your skin (esp. wrinkles).
- we have some evidence that NMN is broken down by your gut bacteria AND we have also evidence that it is not. It may be that NMN is really well absorbed and uses another pathway as NAM/Niacin/etc.
- it seems that it will bring up your NAD+ blood levels (whatever that means)
In my personal case:
it just helps me a lot become more awake in the morning. (others reporting the same)
In case of my mother:
NMN (or CaAKG) is about to restore her haircolour. She is 77yo btw
On the other side:
david sinclair is absolutly genius in marketing. I am wondering about his mouse-paper and his tellings about the treadmill.
I have some issues with seeling NMN in my shop and thats mainly because I dont trust sinclair, but in general I will continue. Its still a good supplement but its possibly not the super supplement that sinclair is trying to make us believe.
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I have stopped taking NMN for the past week due to COVID, and I can say that I am feeling more sluggish every day even though I am close to fully recovered. I am interested to see if my energy levels bounce back once I start taking NMN again. It could be that for some people like myself, the NMN provides an extra energy boost. We all have different biologies, so it may not work for everyone. But, it is a lot harder to be fully engaged at work these days due to this sluggish feeling.
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Neo
#24
Sorry, but which study is this. Sound very interesting.
Neo
#25
I understand why one might want to stop rapa during infection, how come you stopped boosting NAD+, because of Paxlovid interactions?
The reason I stopped is that I didn’t want to bring all my vitamins to the hotel where I was self-isolating. I tried to take as few things with me as possible as I didn’t want to contaminate everything with the virus. It was a practical decision.
In all honesty, the NMN and other supplements I didn’t take probably would have helped me recover faster, although with the Paxlovid I recovered quite quickly. I was really worried on the first few days when the phlegm I was coughing up was blood red and I had splitting pain through my head and abdomen whenever I coughed. And that was quite frequently…
Surprisingly I had only a minor fever. I did have hot and cold flashes as well as a sore throat and persistent cough.
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Neo
#27
Got it, thanks for color.
Sorry to hear it was a bit rough, but very glad to hear that things are much better!
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combined methabolic activators are:
l-serine, N-acetyl-l-cysteine, nicotinamide riboside, and l-carnitine tartrate, a salt form of l-carnitine.
But it should also work with glycin or TMG and NMN or Niacin.
They gave it to covid-19 patients and saw a significant faster recovery. But the amount of probands is really small. Even the newest paper from turkey is only a saftey study. The findings are not a medical evidence but its absolutly intriguing.
they have also seen improved cognitive functions in alzheimer’s disease patients (phase II trail):
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Neo
#29
Thank you @Qurestine, I’ll check it out.
absolutly! Thats exactly what I see in my circle of friends.
Some see an effect like what I reported (feeling more awake) and others dont. My wife doesnt feel anything after taking it one year and she also did not feel any changes after she stopped.
I think we all have to test it four ourselfs like Lustgarden has done it. Take it → test blood levels → stopp taking it → see if you feel any different → confirm it with DNA clocks.
I dont like DNA clocks, but at the moment thats the best way to test a supplement.
Personally I dont use clocks. They are too expensive to use them too often. In case of NMN I can feel a slightly difference. In case of Rapa (and some other supplements) I do not feel anything but I just believe* it will work.
*) believe = there are no absolute scientific evidences out there, just some hints
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While I feel something when I take NMN, I feel a LOT more when I take Rapamycin. The difference is like 10 to 1.
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Low dose nicotine may be another way to boost NAD.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-36543-8#ref-CR36
It has been discovered that minuscule amounts of nicotine, as an activator of NAD+ biogenesis, can markedly improve NAMPT activity and NAD+ synthesis, leading to improved glucose metabolism and cognitive function, as well as aging symptoms, in male mice.
To examine the effect of nicotine on NAMPT activity in different tissues of aging mice, we tested NAMPT activity in the hippocampus, cortex, heart, liver, muscle, and kidney at 2, 6, and 12 months of age. We found that the activity of NAMPT in mouse tissues gradually decreased with increasing age. After nicotine administration in drinking water (2 μg/mL) from 6 to 12 months, nicotine significantly restored the NAMPT activity in all the tissues (Fig. 1a–g). Consistently, we detected β-NMN levels in brain and liver tissues by LC-MS and found that β-NMN levels were significantly increased after nicotine administration (Supplementary Fig. 9c).
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Summary: NMN or NAD supplements increase NAD blood levels. However the Aging.ai results and 6MWT results are looked at skeptically by Dr. Attia. He does not have faith in Aging.ai as a valuable aging calculator.
Personal opinion: This study is a positive for NMN or NR supplements as they definitely increase NAD in the blood. The flaws are due to the aging tests like Aging.ai.
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KarlT
#34
Does increased blood levels imply increased intercellular or intramitochondrial levels?
I don’t know if this is new or old to the forum, but Dr. Attia reports NMN has been shown to raise serum NAD levels, and has potential for cellular/mitochondrial benefit. His major criticism is how the Chinese study measured aging and endurance. After reading, I disagree with his conclusion that NMN is “a subject of great debate.”
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The experiment to prove whether NMN improves endurance is straight forward. Test VO2 max (or FTP) pre and post 6 weeks supplementation / placebo.
It hasn’t been done because they don’t want the results.
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KarlT
#37
My opinion only, but if you don’t think there is significant debate to taking an NMN supplement, then you need to read more.
As to Dr. Attia, and the recent study, he makes solid criticisms of the study, especially the age clock which appears to be worthless.
I haven’t been able to find much downside to NMN other than cost, although Rhonda Patrick seems concerned that NMN could stimulate cancer growth.
Anyway, since cost is the only downside and that isn’t an issue for Attia’s patients, his only reason for not recommending it, is that he doesn’t think it works.
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Old news, but didn’t expect Dr. Attia’s name to pop up.
Agreed, it’s not like showing increased aerobic endurance after an intervention is a novel problem.
