LukeMV
#119
It’s a strange time when we have two sides of people living in entire different realities based on the bubble in which they get their news.
One half of the people think the Covid vaccines ended a deadly pandemic and saved millions of lives. The people on this side think the opposition are all complete wack jobs.
The other thinks they killed millions of people and served no benefit and that Covid was going away anyway due to the virus becoming weaker. This group thinks the other side is brainwashed and manipulated by lies and propaganda.
This is so fascinating for non partisan psychologists to study.
9 Likes
I blame the algorithms of social media, search engines and online video platforms like YouTube… you get shown more of what you engage in, and less of what you don’t like… the filter bubble. It seems like a good idea (especially from a business / advertising perspective; the longer you stay on the platform the more ads and more money they make) but you end up with everyone living in their own little reality, which isn’t good for society as a whole, and breeds conflict.
A scenario
Imagine sitting in front of your computer trying to decide whether or not your children are to be vaccinated against common childhood diseases. You go to Google Search, and search for “vaccines and children”. You will get an overwhelming number of results (at the time of writing, I got about 35 million hits). The results are sorted and presented to you, with the ten top hits on the first page. Most people will click one of the links on that first page. What’s interesting is that the results are sorted not only by objective relevance, but rather is heavily influenced by your search history, your social network, when you are searching, and where you are searching from. In fact, over 200 so called “signals” go into that simple search, making your results almost certainly different from mine.
There is little in the way of shared reality any longer. The information information topology we all live in is vastly different depending on our interests and biases.
6 Likes
Beth
#121
Yeah, I think SM is the source of most evil. And yes, you said this more eloquently.
We all know about the algorithms, but aside from targeted ads on insta, it was mostly invisible to me until I became obsessed with Kendrick Lamar after the Super Bowl. It was fascinating for me to witness how my interest in him changed my YouTube homepage almost instantly!
3 Likes
This is absolutely crazy. And I agree - everybody should be concerned no matter which “side” you’re on. Inviting public comments and opinions should be a central part of how decisions are made.
3 Likes
If you read it, it’s not that encouraging IMO:
Tens of thousands died with, or of, measles annually in 19th Century America. By 1960 – before the vaccine’s introduction – improvements in sanitation and nutrition had eliminated 98% of measles deaths. Good nutrition remains a best defense against most chronic and infectious illnesses. Vitamins A, C, and D, and foods rich in vitamins B12, C, and E should be part of a balanced diet.
He’s doing everything possible to downplay the role of vaccination. And while Fox has embedded some vaccine info, the actual text from RFK doesn’t promote vaccines at all. He writes that it’s a personal decision, and he also makes sure to point out that some of the cases in Texas were in kids who had received the vaccine.
6 Likes
Perhaps. But I wouldn’t be so sure. Sometimes politicians unleash forces they can no longer control. One of the undeniable triumphs of DJT in his first term was the operation warp speed in developing the Covid vaccine. And so, DJT was justly proud of this accomplishment. He therefore attempted to claim the credit for that at one of his rallies. Now, knowng the cult like devotion from his hard core followers who turn up at these rallies, you’d expect raucous cheers and applause as with all his claims. But… no! Not with this one. Instead, he was roundly booed and jeered. The poison had penetrated too deep. The toothpaste could not be put back in the tube. DJT, being the consumate politician absorbed that reaction and that was the last time he bragged about assisting in the vaccine development. Instead, he followed the lead of his crowd, and now is all in on the anti-vaxx bandwagon.
It would surprise me not one bit, if RFKJr who made a career from the most abject vaccine denialism, met a similar fate. He sowed the wind and now can only wait for the whirlwind. Trying to unring that bell may not work. The forces he helped unleash may not be controllable. And while my feeling is that ultimately your fate and my fate is up to Mr. Darwin to decide based on our choices, I do feel bad for those who must suffer the consequences of decisions they didn’t make - like, children (and I mean both pro and con any medical decisions made by parents). I pass no judgement - it is simply one of those “life is not fair” tragedies. I can only wish all of us, regardless of our views, the best, and may luck be with you (it is always better to be lucky than good).
2 Likes
Bicep
#126
As a small child playing cards with my family, I complained about my cards and my luck and Dad explained that over time we all get the same cards. Because it’s random. Yet the same guy wins every night. It’s because he has a better understanding and better strategy. Much like with farmers and rain.
So I have an appreciation for what happens here with reading studies and trying to come up with a winning strategy. Lol, all of this is to say; it’s not better to be lucky than good in the long run
6 Likes
Those algo bubbles suck…
I have a list of news sources I review once a week for different views on the news… Here are a few;
https://www.historydefined.net/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/
https://angusreid.org/
5 Likes
Todd
#128
I have a strong opinion based on experience…
This is a private board operated at the grace of one individual.
We are all here because of the standards of conduct and culture created by the leadership of this individual. We see that standard in every post he creates. It sets the tone that we all subscribe to. It’s why we’re all here.
I run two private community forums, and I used to own several apartment communities.Those communities taught me something important - one bad apple spoils the whole bunch.
When you have a bad tenant in your community, then the good people respond by leaving because they don’t want to be around the bad apple. If this is allowed to persist, the entire community devolves to the level of the bad tenant. It’s ugly and expensive to watch.
The solution is simple: you remove bad tenants before they can negatively impact the experience for the rest of the community.
If @RapAdmin doesn’t like what a participant is posting for whatever reason he chooses, then he should remove that post and/or the participant to preserve the quality and integrity of this community according solely to his standards.
He created the culture. He’s the judge and the jury. We like what’s here and want the culture preserved.
This is not a democracy.
14 Likes
100%
Civil discourse and conflicting opinions can exist on a forum like this, without “democracy”.
6 Likes
KarlT
#130
Agree with @Steve_Combi here. @RapAdmin has the right to do whatever he wants. And he has done a great job. He’s deleted posts and kicked out or suspended “bad apples”. This however, is different from arbitrarily deciding what is “pseudo science”. Especially since many educated people would consider Rapamycin as pseudoscience. Bad ideas are best dealt with by good ideas. Let’s keep good discussions going, and let’s stop beating this dead horse.
Btw, there are some slightly bad apples around but removing them wouldn’t be right.
5 Likes
Alex
#131
Against for several reasons.
Likely because of my age but I can think of a lifetime of examples: evolution, nuclear weapons testing, STEM cell research, nuclear energy, SETI (in cold war period), women’s movement protesting research on sex differences, climate change. Some, more explicitly political than others but all having ideological perspectives having some basis in politics.
3 Likes
True, but those issues don’t seem to come up much here in our forums these days. 99% of it (from my rough estimation) seems to be related to Covid Vaccines. So I think the policy of avoiding covid vaccination discussions (backwards looking), it will keep the political disagreements / arguments to a minimum.
And my focus in this statement is really the retrospective takes on Covid vaccines that are decidedly one-sided; e.g. this type of discussion rehashing old data that seems more political than scientific: CANARY In A COVID World
I’m not talking about new data from new research studies; for example I think the type of new information presented in this type of discussion is less political and more pure science oriented: Vaccines for longevity
I’m trying to parse the more scientific, less political aspects of covid vaccination from the more political. The goal here is to keep the forum focused on good science, around strategies and tactics for healthy longevity.
5 Likes
I agree and also to your point, the breadth and depth to which the politics have penetrated professions more-or-less based on science. As one example, I see a disturbing number of vaccine-related anti-government and anti-science comments made by physicians and nurses on medical sites.
I wish this were true, but I don’t think it’s the case. As we know, a lie travels around the earth before the truth even has its shoes on. In human psychology, there is a huge bias towards us believing the first thing we hear and we weight that more heavily, even in the face of better evidence.
The other problem is that online, it’s incredibly easy for a small number of people to totally derail a conversation or post lots of bullshit. So again, I think the intent, effort and credibility is what matters. If somebody wants to come here and say vaccines are bad and they actually have new evidence, that’s fine. But if they’re going to come out with the same ‘evidence’ that’s been debunked 20x already, they’re only adding noise.
Lastly, there’s also cognitive dissonance. There’s already been negative studies of Rapamycin, but we find reasons - the dose wasn’t right, daily administration isn’t any good, the formulation didn’t allow proper absorption etc etc. But, for example, if Matt K’s dog study fails to show an effect, do you think everybody here will quit Rapamycin? I bet they won’t, because it’s also partly ideological, just like how some people cling to keto, or carnivore, or metformin, or resveratol and it becomes part of their identity and value system. It’s very hard to let go of something you already believe, no matter how many good ideas you later encounter.
7 Likes
LukeMV
#137
There is no measles outbreak. The media loves to lie and people love to believe the lies.
3 Likes
PBJ
#138
Almost as many cases as last year only 3 months in.
4 Likes
Tim
#139
Maybe I missed it, but I’ve never read an offensive comment posted by @Bicep. Anyone calling for his ouster should be sent to the gulag.
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