If I’m understanding this post correctly then 16mg with GFJ seems a very high dose. Are there any other people you know of taking these kinds of doses? Did you have any side effects? I’ve taken 7mg with GFJ before and felt quite strange for 2-3 days. However it had a positive effect on the chronic pain condition I suffer with. I decided I wasn’t going to go that high again but who knows.
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It is a high dose. I am assuming that the Rapamycin I have imported is Rapamycin. I do quite a wide range of higher doses of various things (25OHD, Melatonin, Citrate)
I have sleep problems, but to be fair I tend to binge drink more when I take Rapamycin which has different effects on sleep.
However, I have not identified other side effects.
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jnorm
#144
@DeStrider I think the main idea is to survive until better treatments are available, and in the meantime don’t damage yourself. Since no one knows how to implement this strategy, there is no right way to do it. We could agree and argue about many wrong ways to do it.
My thinking is that once you reach adulthood, aging is a continuously active process. So if there’s something can slows the rate of aging, you better be taking it as early as possible if you want to increase your odds of odds of living to see those treatments.
Even when we find something that increases lifespan in rodents more than rapa, we’ll still be in the same predicament where we don’t know if it increases lifespan in humans, let alone the optimal dosage protocol.
Assuming a starting level of 6mg dosing once per week, it seems like it might be feasible to slowly increase that dosing level safetly by regularly monitoring all the key blood measures that might indicate negative side effects, like LDL, APOB, blood sugar and insulin levels, and markers of immune suppression, like white blood cell levels, TREGs, etc.
This is the luxury we have that individual mice don’t. We can check how it’s impacting our biomarkers and adjust our dose to prevent immune suppression, dyslipidemia, insulin dysregulation, etc
I think this is why we might stand to benefit more from rapa than any model organism, because we can check our biomarkers and tailor our dosing to our personal genetics.
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I completely agree.
I just had my longevity package blood draw a few hours ago.
Agreed, but we can do more than that. Unlike the mouse, a smart human can plan ahead and be of two minds. We can decide to adjust our lifestyle in ways to improve our health and lifespan. We can decide to do things that we hate to do. The mouse is probably of one mind, and has limited degrees of freedom in any case.
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I have just recently finished my trial of Rapamycin at the following dosages - 4 mg + GFJ, 5 mg + GFJ, and 6 mg + GFJ a week. The reason I say 6 - 7 mg is because I took the dose on the back of a week of 5 mg, so there was some extra Rapamycin in my system that hadn’t cleared yet. I estimate that to be about 1-3 mg extra. These are all weekly doses. Here are the results:
6 - 7 mg + GFJ (21 - 25 mg equivalence) - Horrible hives (more than 50 mostly on the torso) for several days. It’s very itchy and annoying. It’s not what I want to do regularly. I won’t do this again.
5 - 6 mg + GFJ (17.5 - 21 mg equivalence) - Mild hives that lasted for several days. I had thought they were mosquito bites. Again, quite annoying but much better than at 6-7 mg.
4 - 5 mg + GFJ (14 - 17.5 mg equivalence) - 2 - 4 small semi-itchy hives that appeared on appendages. 2 acne pimples on the neck. This seems to be the level that works best for me, and I will maintain this level for now.
I did my bloodwork after the 6 mg + GFJ while I was in the US. My LDL and ApoB were still at 48 (due to statins, Bempedoic Acid and Ezetemibe) and my HBA1C was 5.8. So it seems that the various dosages at these relatively high levels do not significantly make lipids or blood sugar worse after the initial bump when I started taking Rapamycin. (When I first started Rapamycin, my LDL jumped to 120 from 67).
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RPS
#148
I wonder if you are a hyper absorber of Rapa when you take it with GFJ.
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adriank
#149
Depends on the timing… And what else you eat.
Alex
#150
I am struggling with symptoms if I push too hard on taking Rapa.
And my uneducated opinion is that they represent potentially more serious issues than just a cold sore here or a skin rash there. So I am content to take a relatively small dose every two weeks, and perhaps over time increase gradually. Right now I am at 6 grams per dose but maybe higher in the future.
I am doing a LOT of stuff overall. Any one thing may not seem like a lot but together it is probably excessive. So that is my perspective on super-dosing on Rapa. But as someone said, we are all just guessing on practically every relevant metric. So my conviction here is low.
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Paul
#151
I get Jardiance
25mg 1pack (90 Tablets)=$99
EMS shipping charges-$45
from Wellcome Wellness
1 Like
Wolf
#152
Hello. Reading this is really interesting but actually only testing gives you a clue. Thats why I decided after 1,5 years of taking Rapamycin, mostly 2-3g + GFJ to go for a blood test.
Eating one grapefruit after light snack with nuts and olive oil at 9 am and one more grapefruit after breakfast with lentils and olive I took at 10 am 2mg original Rapamune (with coating). Blood test 100 minutes later at 11:10 gave me only 7.5 ng/l.
Repeated the same procedure one week later with 4 mg original Rapamune gave me today 15,4 ng/l.
Seeing the results of for example Agetron - my values are much lower and to get a 22,5 ng/ l level 2 hours later (Matt Kaelberlein level) I would need to take probably 6mg Rapamune which would correspond 6 x 3mg = 18mg or up to 6 x 6mg = 36 mg Rapamune without GFJ (6 is Agetrons multiplier). Or do I miss something? Thanks for your comments.
PS: Blood test was done in a German labor, blood was basically taken there -
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adriank
#153
Try to get a 24hr or 48hr test instead. More meaningful. Also I take my rapamycin 3 hours after GFJ for maximum results.
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Wolf
#154
Hey Adrian, thank you. Will try that. Just have seen that most try to measure the peak level 90-120min after take in. Whats the target level 24/ 48h after looking for Matt Kaeberleins recommendation of 8mg/. 20ng/l - 120 min after taking Rapamycin?
You take three Grapefruits with Rapamycin? Whats your protocol if I may ask? Thanks a lot!
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sudiki
#155
how much GFJ and how do you take it (time-wise). an hr before , at same time with the rapa, etc.?
I eat 2 grapefruits 1-4 hours before taking the Rapamycin. I then take the Rapamycin in a shot of EVOO.
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What is the mechanistic justification for taking the grapefruit (juice or whole fruit) in advance of rapamycin? Also, do we have any data on how far in advance is optimal? I’m trying to understand the mechanisms better so I can improve my dosing.
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So they get to work inhibiting cyp3a4 that might metabolise rapamycin .
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Based on information I’ve gathered on this forum, a couple hours in advance at least. The effect can last for days but takes some time to begin. My practice is to eat a grapefruit 12 hours / 4-5 hours / 2 hours in advance. 3 grapefruit.
adriank
#160
I stopped getting 12 hour results since switching to 8mg. I wait 84 hours to target around 3ng/mL. My highest 12 hour results at 20mg was 39.9ng/mL. After that result I cut right back. Now I’m thinking of moving up to 12 to 15mg.
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They did a clinical trial on the effects of GFJ on Rapamycin. You get a 3X multiplier on average if you take GFJ 1-4 hours before taking Rapamycin. The effect drops off quickly after 4 hours.
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