#32

There is no evidence to my understanding that keto diets help in longevity, so I assume they are of less interest to rational people on this forum, and I am not suggesting anyone try this. But they do single out some cellular mechanisms in metabolism so this might help people here with better understanding on how it goes together.

For me, I have a special use case as I had cancer and would prefer not to get it again. Plus I get to join the hypermasculine “gym bro” club who bow hunts their caribou meal after their jujitsu training session and getting “swol”. And in true gym bro form, I had to spell check “caribou”….But seriously, diet or no diet, I’d recommend weights if you can because it really transforms your abilities, movement, and solidity. Not tro get big, but to be more resilient and makes normal tasks easy.

Truthfully, I could not lose weight for the life of me (lack if self control? Even on a longer term med diet — didn’t work personally for me although I loved the food), even with seven day fasts, and keto, low carb, and carnivore worked wonders for me. Not sure it’s the “ultimate diet” but it did work for me. I’m not sure if it is a good longevity diet even for me, but my labs tests and physical abilities have vastly improved since being on it (oh so sorry! I didn’t have a control group so it must not have happened!). So without much care for “proving” anything, I’ll probably continue this until it starts to be a negative, regardless if others are negative.

#33

Good question. I’m not sure. I believe Dom D’Agastino believes the ketones drive something beyond just lower MTOR because he’s using it for the Navy SEALs for “enhanced human performance”. Also these guys are constantly breaking themselves down and then healing so I assume MTOR is pulsed at very least. But just to be clear: this isn’t looking at longevity, but for enhanced performance. It may be that “ the e candle that burns twice as bright” yadda yadda yadda, or it could be that longevity comes from continuous youthful physiology (more enhanced performance means more immune and repair and recycle function, etc. ). Or maybe no relationship.

Also D’Agastino has pointed out that the SEALS are generally older guys (meaning 30-50 — not quite at @desertshores or Dr Life levels)) and they have to perform at optimal levels and fully recover, so its not just a bunch of young 25 year olds who can take more punishment and recover without tuning.

#34

Those are good points, and I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that reducing MRtOR is good (even though rapa and other MTOR suppressors clearly extend longevity and in many cases healthspan as well).

I fast regularly. But I had thought that the recycling/autophagy of damaged/rouge cells was part of the reduction of cancer. (This is why I fast.)

And then separately, I was under the impression that your immune system clears out most of cancers before they become an issue, so if your immune system is strong (and not autoimmune) this should prevent cancer. And Greg Fahy stimulates the immune system in part through HGH which should stimulate MTOR. Which we decided above would have reduced cancer.

So I remain confused.

#35

The topic regarding high/low mTOR/HGH and longevity/healthspan is very confusing indeed. My own understanding of it is that rapamycin allows the body to “defragment” itself, thereby becoming more efficient. The rest of the time, having a high mTOR activity helps with muscle growth and maintainence.

1 Like
#36

Interesting article on increased senescent cells due to keto diet

This would be a bit of a concern if true. Seems like probably a well done study, albeit in mice.

The HGH is interesting - and who knows if it is confounded with good by regenerating T cells and the thymus, and then possibly balanced with some bad of stimulating mTOR and IGF-1. However, cycled with Rapa and used in recovery seems like a feasible and smart plan … so long as you don’t end up generating malignancies from stimulating IGF-1.

The other issue is looking at IGF-1 and making sure you aren’t pushing it up. On 2 units/day … mine was a z score of 0.1 … so normal … I’d perhaps feel differently about it if my Z score was +2

1 Like
#37

Ill take a look art the study later, thank you for sharing it. I personally pulse fasting (four day fasts every 1.5-2 months) and frequent OMAD. Hopefully this is enough to stave off too much MTOR. Rapa would help as well, although I haven’t yet started it.

Of one of the many things that concerns me about the keto diet, it’s over expressing cortisol. I’m not sure that this is a positive longer term.

2 Likes
#38

They help is several ways including by this study;

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1038/icb.1981.57

Where they suppress bacteria with LPS. If you read Lustgarten’s book, then you would see why this is important. LPS is on all the bad guys that hurt your gut.

#39

As a physician, most of my colleagues do a double take when I talk about the benefits of a ketogenic diet. What I was taught in medical school and what is still being taught is the food pyramid. I was shocked when I learned about this deception at the end of 2023. It upends all the previous assumptions about eating fats. I have been on the carnivore diet (extreme keto) and a practically zero-carb diet since Feb 2024, and I have never felt better. I am never hungry, and I have lost 25 pounds without trying, and no calorie counting. The ketogenic glow is a real thing, and my thinking has never been more clear.
As a psychiatrist, I am increasingly seeing that ketogenic may have a significant benefit for severe psychiatric conditions, reducing the severe symptoms by 30%. And as mentioned there may be benefits to early intervention in Alzheimer’s disease and other neurologically based conditions. Chris Palmer, MD talks about the benefits seen in his study at Stanford. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUtwr_6sFw4&t=4361s&pp=ygUacHN5Y2hpYXRyaWMga2V0b2dlbmljIGRpZXQ%3D
The ketogenic diet is actively being censored, and Doctors who talk about the benefits are at some risk of being shunned. Here is [Nick Norwitz PhD] discussing the academic integrity concerns as relates to Ketogenic diets.
https://youtu.be/4df03_N_qVA?si=CcyGwp1Ki2DaGsSc

4 Likes
#41

Doesn’t fat increase growth of cancer

The best cancer prevention diet is to eat green leafy vegetables ,fruits , turmeric, high fiber diet ; foods that are pro apoptosis , and anti angiogenesis

I read you can take meat with calcium carbonate to block the carcinogenesis

The issue with meat is that it increases igf-1 ; IGF-1 is a main cause of cancer

Look at people with Laron syndrome ; they never get cancer due to IGF-1 deficiency

2 Likes
#42

Thanks for this, @Sabrina1980 — much appreciated.

Just to make sure there is no animosity in the conversation: I don’t know what the answer to “what treatment for cancer is beat”. And I DEFINITELY don’t know the answer to “what treatment for longevity is best”. I hoped to share the articles at the beginning of this thread (which was unfortunately overrun by tribalism) which I had shared with a doctor friend of mine who has advanced stage cancer (which I found myself when I had stage iii cancer). I am also NOTR promoting the keto diet: I have a “special use case” and from my research I thought this was something ai could do longish term to help make me less attractive to metastasis.

That having been said, I am not a professional oncologist (I did work in an oncology/biochem/polymerase lab for three years, including winning a competitive research fellowship, but whatt I worked on really wasn’t anything to do with actual oncoloflgy, I was young and even stupider than I am now, and it was a REALLY long time ago — the big thing was applying p553 to every model).

The best cancer prevention diet is to eat green leafy vegetables ,fruits , turmeric, high fiber diet ; foods that are pro apoptosis , and anti angiogenesis

So what I understand of the researchers I posted is a different viewpoint than what I think is the current standard if care which has been relatively ineffective. Their work suggests this low glucose blood level diet combined with ketones weakens cancer cells in general (mostly?) through starving their fermentation metabolism (I think). They are saying that this is the largest impact on cancers, more than normal HGH or IGF-1 promotion, but I don’t really know. This means if you had a high vegetable diet as you suggested — even vegan — and made sure it was low carb and supplemented with ketones, this fits right into what their research is suggesting. Does meat significantly impact IGF-1 versus plant protein, or is it a small effect? I am also confused by much of this because I know high HGH promotes cancer but there must be a u or j shaped curve because generally metabolically healthy don’t seem to get cancer as often as metabolically unhealthy people. And Greg Fahy uses HGH to promote immune function to have it fight cancer. So this perplexes me on what to do:m.

So you definitely may be correct, but this may be separate, or they may be saying the ketosis is a much larger impact.

Seyfried attracted me to this idea because the standard of care seems less effective when you actually have cancer and Seyfried has been doing this for years with supposedly amazing results so there may be something here, and that’s why I started this. I know of D’Agastino’s work just from keto performance enhancement but I didn’t know he separately was thinking about this.

This was a very wordy was to say “I have zero idea”. And I don’t seek to spread misinformation. )And I am NOT an evangelist.) But we’re deep thinking biohackers in this forum. And there seems to be some interesting results to think about here, particularly if you have/had cancer

I appreciate the discussion.

3 Likes
#43

Elevated blood glucose has a major impact on cells that are prone to neoplasms. This is why a low-carb/keto diet is believed to have some benefits similar to intermittent fasting. There are by-products of fructose and glucose metabolism, which likely can exacerbate the risk of cancer growth.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtPQA_-qML0&pp=ygUMbmljayBub3J3aXR6

2 Likes
#44

A good recent book on this subject worthwhile to study:

https://www.amazon.com/Ketogenic-Science-Therapeutic-Carbohydrate-Restriction/dp/0128216174

#45

IMG_7782
IMG_77821179×2556 268 KB

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11154604/

1 Like
#46

With just a little research you can find which cancers are ameliorative to glucose/fructose restrictions, (ie Keto diet). The best studies in humans have been in Stge 4 mammary cancer where chemo was no longer working( with cancer spread to liver lungs and brain), but with the addition of a strict Keto diet( the study participants were made to eat all meals(keto) provided by the hospital nutritionist). 8 out of 9 participants were cancer free in 90 days. The study participants were their own controls-no change in standard of care chemo protocols.

-There is unlikely a preventative effect by staying on a keto diet- in fact you could be selecting for cancers that are keto resistant. -Use it for when you really need it!

-Unfortunately if you research metabolism and a specific cancer you find that many cancers can switch from glucose to amino acids and other substrates and a keto diet is of no help except in a specific circumstance- see below.
There is a current stage 2-3 trial where prior to chemotherapy participants are put on a keto diet for 2-3 weeks. Then on the day of chemo therapy their blood glucose is (carefully) brought (and kept) to zero for 24hrs after chemotherapy. It used to be thought that rbc’s, platelets, and other cells (without mitochondria) would die with a zero bg, but apparently not. The response to chemo is apparently significantly improved.

2 Likes
#47

Thanks for sharing. Think there is a lot of value to this approach in several circumstances. I would also suggest that this and other approaches are individual and what might be beneficial for could be detrimental to others. Perhaps a closer look at genetic makeup and diet should be the focus.

1 Like
#48

Anyone doing keto, may still want to try and get fiber:

Ohio State University (OSU) researchers have a chilling theory as to why colorectal cancer is rising in young adults

The OSU researchers are sounding the alarm about diets which are high in fat and low in fiber. Specifically, scientists believe the “Western diet” can unsettle the particular balance of bacteria within your gastrointestinal tract. This can cause inflammation which ages cells at an accelerated rate, making them more susceptible to cancer.

4 Likes
#49

europepmc.org search 10941341. It seems that low dose acetylsalicylic acid (Aspirin or other brand) like 100-300 mg can lower the risk for colorectal cancer(CRC) and even have some beneficial effect on people previously diagnosed with CRC.

2 Likes
#50

Here’s a very short clip of Dr Thomas Seyfried saying the common link to all cancers is a deficiency of oxidative phosphorylation: cancer cells can only ferment glucose and glutamine for energy. This is why he prescribes a ketogenic diet to weaken the cancer cells specifically and then can more easily target them with other (many traditional) methods.

(Please note no-one said here anything about a keto diet being better for longevity beyond people with cancer)

3 Likes
#51

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2589004220301620#:~:text=Acute%20and%20Long-Term%20Exercise,glutamine%20levels%20is%20through%20exercise.

Exercise-Mediated Lowering of Glutamine Availability Suppresses Tumor Growth and Attenuates Muscle Wasting

Highlights

  • Reduced access to glutamine inhibits cancer growth in vitro and in vivo
  • Acute exercise reduces serum glutamine
  • Wheel running prevents muscular changes in glutamine transport and catabolic signaling
  • Wheel running (for mice - making cycling for humans) reduces tumor growth and tumor-induced weight loss
1 Like
#52

2:09

I’m getting reports back from several folks who told me that whatever different kinds of cancers they’ve had completely disappear after long term repeated water only fasting and exercise

First read of the above in the book below entitled “The Oldest Cure in the World: Adventures in the Art and Science of Fasting” by Steve Hendricks (Author)

2 Likes