#181

Yes, my last package was delayed in India. However, I am not too unhappy. We are just too used to Amazon’s overnight deliveries. Those of us in the forum who are older remember the old mail order disclaimer: “Please allow at least 30 days for shipping and handling” and that was for domestic orders.
My latest order:

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#182

it appears you’ll soon be getting your order of clomid :rofl: :rofl:

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#183

It is interesting that you did not respond to such a high dose. I take 1 mg occasionally and can definitely feel the effect. I am over 75 y/o and have not tested my levels but here there is some literature that suggests low doses are effective.

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#185

Drgathard, Can you provide more information? I would like to know how often you take these 1 mg capsules of DHEA and what effects you notice. And, where can you buy 1 mg capsules? The smallest size I have found is 5 mg. I will do some research on my own, but if you have found other PubMed articles about this please list them. Thanks.

#186

“DHEA levels peak at about age 25, then go down steadily as you get older. By the time people are 70 to 80 years old, their DHEA levels are only 10% to 20% those in young adults.”

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I am not sure what you expect to accomplish with only 1 mg of DHEA. That doesn’t seem like that would be an effective dose for a 75-year-old.

I have been taking 25 mg daily of third-party tested DHEA for approximately 4 months. I had my levels tested after 3 months and it did not seem to have raised my levels significantly.

You should probably get your levels tested. Everyone is different, but I have noticed nothing at this point from taking 25 mg daily. It has not raised my blood levels to the normal range or raised my testosterone to the normal range.

I got the test from Ulta Lab Tests for $60. It might be cheaper elsewhere.

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(14.7 ug/L) or approx 7.4% of a 25-year-old.

I will get tested again in a few months and if the results are not in the normal zone I will increase my intake to 50 mg/day.

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#187

I got capsules awhile ago and have split the powder so I am only taking a third of 20 mg. I read through several forums where body-builders describe their experiences taking Enclomiphene in higher doses and one thing it does is cause your hair to fall out.

So I have been trying to gradually increase it to avoid any extreme effects. Good luck with trying it.

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#188

I wonder if you take it daily or in different intervals. I have also read and researched a bit, and the consensus seems to be to take it up to 20mg but best to take it 2-3 times weekly. Apparently, people taking it this way (2-3 times weekly) had fewer if any side effects and still got good results in T increase (couple I read from 400’s to mid 800’s. Personally i wouldn’t want it to be over 800-900 max). Others who took it daily and at 20-50mg reported total T in the 1500 range, I’m sure that must come with some unpleasant surprises.

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#189

I am basically taking it 3-4 times weekly but about 8 mg. Makes sense to space out dosages. Maybe I should raise the amount. First want to see my T level test, then will adjust.

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#190

In your mind, what are the most likely explanations for this?

The following questions occurred to me:

  • Could your body, for whatever reason, be quickly converting this DHEA (in several steps) into estrogens?
  • Could it be that you’re rapidly converting DHEA to DHEA-S, where your levels of the unconjugated form remain low while supplementation is increasing your levels of the sulfated form?

It might be worth testing levels of other steroids and their different forms downstream from DHEA in the hormone cascade if 50 mg/day still doesn’t have the effect you’re looking for.

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#191

I have no explanation. I haven’t tested estradiol before, so I don’t know, but it is in the low normal range for men. I don’t think DHEA is having much of an effect.

“Since DHEA is a precursor to testosterone, consumption of DHEA is naturally expected to increase the testosterone level”

When I receive my Enclomiphene/Clomid I will stop taking DHEA and try titrating up the Enclomiphene/Clomid dose until I reach mid-range levels of testosterone.

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#192

I think taking clomid (not enclomiphene citrate) will raise supposedly both Estradiol and T? so, if you shipment is in fact clomid you might have killed two birds with one stone :rofl:

#193

Sorry for the blog:

I have never had any TRT before, so I researched what would be the best for me.
The conclusion I came to was clomiphene citrate (or enclomiphene) which is not testosterone and does not have many of the side effects of testosterone gels etc…

TRT is associated with external, physical changes in men. Exogenous testosterone is known to cause an imbalance in the hypothalamic-pituitary axis. As such, testosterone can be converted to estrogen by aromatization. Excess estrogens may lead to gynecomastia and/or breast pain, both of which may be seen in 10-25% of men on TRT.

“Clomiphene citrate and the single isomer isolate enclomiphene are well-known selective estrogen receptor modulators which have been used alternatively to treat men with hypogonadism [13], [14], [15]. Clomiphene citrate stimulates endogenous testosterone production by inhibiting the negative feedback at the hypothalamus and pituitary, resulting in an increased gonadotropin-releasing hormone and luteinizing hormone (LH) release.”

“Testosterone/estradiol ratio was calculated to evaluate the potential benefit of clomiphene citrate in stimulating testosterone while causing minimal changes in estradiol levels.”

“Low dose clomiphene citrate is effective in elevating serum testosterone levels and improving the testosterone/estadiol ratio in men with hypogonadism. This therapy represents an alternative to testosterone therapy by stimulating the endogenous androgen production pathway.”
“The mean age was 39 years, and the mean pretreatment testosterone and estrogen levels were 247.6 ± 39.8 ng/dL and 32.3 ± 10.9, respectively. By the first follow–up visit (4–6 weeks), the mean testosterone level rose to 610.0 ± 178.6 ng/dL (P < 0.00001). Moreover, the T/E ratio improved from 8.7 to 14.2 (P < 0.001). There were no side effects reported by the patients.”

Can you cite any articles that indicate that enclomphene citrate raises estrogen levels in men? If so what percentage of men were affected?

At 6 months, TT levels were 545 ± 268 and 525 ± 256 pg/dL for groups receiving the gel and enclomiphene citrate, respectively. Only men in the enclomiphene citrate group demonstrated increased LH and FSH.

Low levels of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) can be partly responsible for low sperm counts, which is the biggest cause of infertility in men. LH stimulates testosterone release by the Leydig cells of the testes.

“At follow‐up, only enclomiphene citrate treatment was associated with elevated sperm counts.”

TRT:
“In fact, In the 1990s the World Health Organization tested testosterone as a male birth control and found that it was close to 97 percent effective.”

Bottom line:

I conclude that TRT comes with more side effects and possible dangers to older men than TRT

I can find no compelling evidence that clomiphene citrate raises estradiol except in a small minority of cases.

I will take science over Reddit anecdotal cases. After all “Customers are more inclined to write negative reviews than positive reviews because of the heightened emotional response.”

Since I have a recent baseline for both T and estradiol levels I will be able to tell if it has any significant effect on T and estradiol levels.

TRT is more likely to raise estrogen levels (a minority side effect in both cases) than clomiphene citrate. I invite you to prove me wrong. I really do want to know.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609515312170?via%3Dihub

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#194

No intention to even try to prove you wrong lol. I’m with you on this one. I would not do TRT, even though I know there is others that are doing it with great results. I’m doing Clomiphene Citrate at moment last week or so, and I’ve had no side effects to speak of. Don’t know if it is having an effect on T either, since i have not tested (though probably need couple months to see if it is working). I have noticed that i am a bit more aggressive though, and that is not a very good thing (since I don’t think I need much help on that department lol.) but will see if my aggression escalates. BTW, on the department that counts most have nothing negative to report, could actually be positive effects (or maybe placebo effect) but the performance is as good or better than ever. :smile:

#195

@Alex
Because of confusing patent laws, India can’t sell enclomiphene as a stand-alone product. We know that clomid works for women who are or wish to become pregnant. However, enclomiphene is not approved by the FDA to be sold in India or the U.S. I don’t know what the laws are in the UK.

I just learned more about enclo and the FDA, which, in 2015, found no clinical benefit in Phase 3 trials. Maybe the government’s decision rests on the erratic nature of the drug’s effects, as we have seen. Or maybe Viagra lobbyists influenced the decision.

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#196

Just to be clear, I don’t think the FDA has any jurisdiction over anywhere outside the USA.

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#197

'noticed that i am a bit more aggressive
Okay, maybe I’ll up my dose of lithium orotate. :crazy_face:

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#198

Unfortunately, I have not found any small capsules. I cut up a 25 mg tab and divide it in 1/5’s and thendo it again. I use about 1.5 - 2 mgs. It works very well and I don’t get the side effects of extreme stimulation, herpes, etc that i get from large doses.

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#199

@essexaid, yes, the FDA does have an office in India, which imports tons of food and medical products to this country. The agency inspects everything in India that it inspects here. This is why enclomiphene can’t be ordered from India, because it not approved for sale in the U.S. They should set up an office in Shanghai.

https://www.fda.gov/about-fda/office-global-operations/india-office

#200

Thats not what I read in the book “Bottle of Lies” that came out a couple of years ago. The FDA inspects Indian Pharma factories occasionally (much less frequently than the US) and importantly they have to give the factory advance warning of when they are going to visit… and there are numerous cases referenced in the book (by Indian whistle blowers) that some of the companies are using this advanced notice to destroy evidence of non-compliance, and fake results.

Read more here: Why and How to Test Your Rapamycin for Purity, Dosage and Contaminants

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#201

@RapAdmin, these articles look interesting, and I will read them tomorrow. The FDA may be hampered in India for the same reason they are hampered here: a shortage of manpower. It could, of course, be worse than that, with all the usual graft and corruption.

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