#19

See if you can find Calcifediol rather than Cholecalciferol.

Also I think people should not take D3 and K2 together as the dosing needs to be controlled separately. It may be, in fact, that K2 should be much higher. However, being limited to the ratio in a D3K2 supplement is restrictive.

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#20

I have always aimed for 50, the doc says to go a little higher, usually I’m in the 40’s. Just got back from my yearly physical and it was 100! I take 5000 daily and now have 3 sperti lamps I used (5 minutes) every night all winter. Apparently I don’t need the 5000 any more. Of course we get nothing from the sun here in winter.

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#21

I have no idea where K2 should be dose at but few years ago it wasn’t even on my radar. I also get K2 from natural sources.

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#22

Keep in mind that if you don’t lay off the D the day before the blood draw, your levels will be artificially high for the test.

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#23

I didn’t know that. It was a 9AM blood draw and I take my D in the morning fasting, so 24 hours later. If I knew I could have stopped a few days before I guess.

#24

Check this thread: Menaquinone-7 - an interesting molecule to power up the mitochondria

There are no dietary sources of K2 MK7 (other than natto).

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#25

According to wikipedia, small amounts of mk-7 can be found in cheeses and sauerkraut, but also 100% of the k2 in “buckwheat bread” is mk-7. I don’t think I’ve ever had buckwheat bread and I don’t know how much k2 such bread has:

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#26

These are tiny amounts. Like 1 ug per 100 g of food. I take 1,000 ug of MK7 every day. I won’t eat 100 kg of buckwheat bread daily :slight_smile:

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#27

True. But if quantity is at issue, perhaps this might be of interest:

Quote “ According to Rebecca Rocchi et al., 2024, creating natto by using Bacillus subtilis to ferment boiled red lentils, chickpeas, or green peas produced greater amounts of MK-7 than creating natto by using Bacillus subtilis to ferment boiled soybeans, lupins, or brown beans.[24]”

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#28

Certain cheeses also have long chain menaquinones, but not that much of it.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S216183132201136X

MKs play a key role in prokaryotic respiratory electron transport chains by functioning as electron carriers in the cytoplasmic membrane (8,10). In addition to a role in microbial respiration, reduced MK forms exhibit antioxidant properties and can play a role in protecting cellular membranes from lipid oxidation (7). MKs have also been shown to be involved in the active transport of molecules across the cell membrane and in sporulation in Bacillus subtilis (11,12).

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#29

How is this of any interest? (I ask the question seriously, I just don’t understand the point)

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#30

Because on the CRSociety boards, years ago, there were extensive discussions about making your own natto. For convenience and cost reasons, and many members did so with a variety of approaches. I thought it interesting that other strata than soybeans could be used that had more K2 MK-7, plus perhaps(?) the taste would be different as some had objections to store bought natto.

This is part of the DIY ethos some of us share: growing our own broccoli sprouts, mushrooms, kefir etc. all of these were discussed on the CR list. Part hobby, part greater control - I myself have been making my own kefir for over 10 years now - still on the same original grains batch! - I make it from non-fat milk, and have it twice a week. I did broccoli sprouts, but for some reason it was always hard going. I never got around to natto, but perhaps I might try with this intriguing chickpeas possibility. So I sent a bat signal to fellow DIY enthusiasts who might also be present on these boards.

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#31

Ah OK, got it. I’m on the other side of the DIY spectrum: I prefer to buy :slight_smile:

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#32

Right, you get the K2 and also the nattokinase and the protein. I did this (as you might expect) soaked some soybeans, bought a little vial of powder and sprinkled it in, overnight in the oven with a 100 watt bulb worked out about right for the temp required. I was very surprised to hit it perfect first time. It is almost impossible to screw this one up.

I wasn’t thrilled with the smell or flavor… had quite a bit of the stuff… at the time I was milking goats daily so thought I would feed it to the goats and derive some benefit by drinking the milk. Also maybe improve the health of the goats. Story went that a guy’s beans went bad and as he threw them away the horse ate them which made him decide to try it. Long story short the goats would not eat it either. If they were hungry maybe but these were not.

But if a person was very short of money and wanted to convert pennies worth of soy into natto for the various benefits I can truthfully say it’s very easy. Eating it is another story.

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#33

Tiny is a relative term, do we know of the actual requirement ? Maybe 1000ug is a huge amount.

#34

Hey, Bicep, you just upended my understanding of goats! I thought goats were famous for eating absolutely everything including plastic bags. Maybe natto is a bridge too far. But yes, making your own is a lot of fun, plus, buying natto is not cheap. I live not far away from a Japanese market, but I’d rather make my own if I thought about the price. Of course, to Antoine’s point, in this case I too just go ahead and buy - the K2 pills, lol, it’s a matter of time use. And you have a chance to experiment, like perhaps with lentils or garbanzo beans. That’s also the advantage of making your own kefir, you can experiment with the substrata. Time and interest permitting.

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#35

Tiny is not relative here. It’s commonly accepted that dietary intakes of MK7 in the West are basically zero. There are no guidelines for MK7 but most vitamin D supplements that include K2 have 50 to 200 ug of it. Bryan Johnson takes 600 ug if I reckon correctly. Many Japanese people eat about 50 g of natto for breakfast every day, which is about 500 ug of MK7. (And association studies in Japan found that the more natto is eaten the better the health outcomes.)

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#36

But do you or @bicep have a theory about the goats in Severance???

Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.

Also, I adore goats!!!

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#37

When it comes to goats (and sheep), I favor the works of Bunuel. Not to be completely off topic, when I buy cheese, I often opt for goat cheese, as it seems to have a healthier nutritional profile. This includes K2 content, which is higher in goat cheese. Of course again taste issues enter. I wish Bicep would feed his goats natto and then obtain a supercheese to be sold in exclusive health food stores😂.

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#38

I have my first results on what is claimed to be 2000iu of calcifediol in a tablet form. It appears to have similar effects to 3000iu of cholecalciferol in oil. However, I have now started taking 4000iu (two tablets) so will see if it converts in a more linear manner than cholecalciferol.

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