#161
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#162

Donā€™t quote me on it, but I wonder if by removing senescent cells and encouraging new cells to grow you might be using up your reserve of stem cells. I believe you have a limited amount. Itā€™s more than possible that I am way off base here, but I do wonder if Oneskin gives you a short term benefit-and I have to say in my case it was substantial-at the cost of your skinā€™s overall longevity. Oneskin really works, in fact itā€™s so good that I donā€™t want to use anything else.

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#163

I never really went deeper into the mechanism of how Oneskin works, but I had a look at several tretinoin studies and tretinoin works on different levels one is also greater vascularity of the skin, meaning that skin gets more nutrients and on different level also produces more new collagenā€¦ if I am not mistaken one of the potential of tretinoin is reverse than your thought, it increases the number of stem cells by altering gene expressionā€¦ but it has been a while since I have looked at these studiesā€¦

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#164

Here is the OneSkin research paper that was published, if people want to learn more about it:

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#165

I donā€™t doubt OneSkinā€™s secret ingredient does something. But it is packaged with hyaluronic acid and nicotinamide, and a few other things. So how does one tease out how much of a perceptual difference the (expensive) secret ingredient makes, vs. the other (cheap) things?

I guess if you were already using a skin treatment that contains HA and nicotinamide and all the other stuff not proprietary, and then ventured into trying OneSkin and noticed a difference, then :+1:

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#166

I canā€™t speak for Oneskin, but I can tell about my experience with tretioninā€¦ I was a cosmetic junkie, using peptides, HA, vitamins, antioxidants, acids, nicotinamideā€¦ you name it. Yes, my skin was ok, but when starting tretinoin after a while I gradually reduced the other stuff I was using until several years ago I noticed that I am using only tretinoin, sunscreen and sometimes cheap bepanthenol cream when i need some moisture and my skin is so much betterā€¦ escpecially when comparing it to other people my age.

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#167

Interested Ill check it out. I also have a fiend who take rapamycin but wonā€™t touch tretinoin due to faster cell turn over that tretinoin causes he said " faster cell turnover = faster ageing in the long term" . I need to look into tretinoin more. Iā€™ve used tretinoin and have lots of stock at home but I stopped after what my friend said lol. Iā€™m young so long term might be bad for me if the faster cell turn over isnā€™t good long term

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#168

Does your friend also avoid exercise for fear of using up all his heartbeats too early? Sorry, had to say it.

I didnā€™t find many papers on decades of tretinoin use, but this one followed people for two years and didnā€™t show anything adverse:

There seems to be a lot of anecdotal stuff from women whoā€™ve used tretinoin for multiple decades. Of course, they also do a lot of other things, and itā€™s difficult to know if they have makeup or other things on in the videos.

This blog has a lot of good before/after photos:

This has a photo of a 78 year old woman who supposedly has used it for 50 years.

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#169

That doesnā€™t mean of course that retinol made that ā€œgrandmotherā€ look young. I know many young looking people who never used retinol. I donā€™t use it. And I do believe that constant exfoliation of skin makes it thinner and and more vulnerable.

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#170

I use tretionin, itā€™s exfoliating effect is only negligible in my personal opinion in getting the skin looking better. On the other hand everyone has a right to choose their way of aging well. While HA booster do in deed make skin temporarily better while increasing hydration and later with new collagen synthesis tretinoin works to really make skin biologically younger. It thickens, produces more collagen, it gets better vascularization and helps skin repair sun damageā€¦ it works on many different levels.

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#171

What else do you do besides the HA mesotherapy? What else have you found to work well over the long term?

#172

I think long term (40+ years) vegetarian diet contributes to it much. HA is just a maintenance. Diet is the core imo.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7916842/

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#173

My 5 cents:
Tretinoin removes senescent cells and gives you overall younger, healthier, more functional skin. As a result, stem cells have less repair to do, chronologically. If the senescent cells would have remained on your skin, they would have caused damage and chronologically depleted your stem cells. Sweet spot for tretinoin usage? Idk.

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#174

Iā€™m thinking of starting tretinoin myself (even though Iā€™m 52 and people think Iā€™m a decade younger but might as well get ahead of inevitable inevitability). And these below articles donā€™t dissuade me from using it,

Given the longevity bent of many people, isnā€™t even the possibility of increase all-cause mortality an issue for this group?

January 24, 2009
Source:
JAMA and Archives Journals
Summary:
Patients using a cream containing tretinoin, a retinoid commonly used to treat acne and other conditions, appeared more likely to die than those using a placebo in a clinical trial that was halted early as a result, according to a new report. However, evidence does not suggest these excess deaths were caused by the therapy.

Results: The intervention was terminated 6 months early because of an excessive number of deaths in the tretinoin- treated group. Post hoc analysis of this difference re- vealed minor imbalances in age, comorbidity, and smok- ing status, all of which were important predictors of death. After adjusting for these imbalances, the difference in mor- tality between the randomized groups remained statis- tically significant.

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#175

ā€œA simple way of avoiding side effects with tretinoin is to apply it with a moisturizer.ā€ First tretinoin and then moisturizer, right?

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#176

I wonder about this also. In biology there is what is called the ā€œHayflick limitā€ which is the number of times a cell can divide before it becomes senescent/stops. The limit is around 50 times I believe. So, anything that increases cell turnover would seem to increase the speed of aging of your skin cells. Iā€™m assuming that a stem cell pool feeds these fully formed skin cell collectionsā€¦ so if youā€™re speeding up the cell turnover, ultimately you are also exhausting the stem cells faster.

I think the argument is that there are more than enough stem cells anyway (for most people) so it doesnā€™t significantly impact the ultimate ability for the skin cells to continue to divideā€¦

But - has anyone looked into this more closely?

Some video discussions / debates on the possible downsides of tretinoin use:

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#177

Hayflick is about telomere length. If telomeres are extended there is no issue.

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#178

Yes - I know, but what do you mean by ā€œif telomeres are extendedā€ā€¦ I donā€™t think we have any clearly validated means of extending our telomeres (except perhaps by the gene therapy that some groups are working on still).

#179

I think where cellular energy levels are high enough hTERT is activated.

#180

For the avoidance of doubt i would not auggest taking trichostatin A