Did you buy your own laser set up? If yes, what type and where did you get it?

However, there is a question of respect for the other forum participants. You have at times asked me questions for which I have researched and found published papers. It is reasonable for forum participants to treat each other with respect and make some effort to find at least a limited number of sources which substantiate a viewpoint. That is how people collectively managed to work towards what appears to be the truth.

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I have OEM Tixel. Tixel is a skin treatment device that uses thermo-mechanical principe (not lasers or light) to improve skin texture, boost collagen, and treat things like wrinkles, acne scars, and pigmentation.

Tixel uses a titanium tip heated to 400°C to deliver brief pulses of heat to the skin. This high temperature creates tiny micro-channels, stimulating collagen production without damaging the skin’s surface. The heat is applied for just milliseconds, making the treatment effective yet gentle.

Main Advantages:
• Very little downtime (1–2 days of redness)
• Safe for all skin tones
• Can be used on delicate areas (even eyelids)
• Sterile skincare products can be injected though open channels (like peptides etc)
• Customizable for different skin issues

I am satisfied with results so far, having 4-5 sessions behind.

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It’s not about importance. I could be the least important person on this forum but still not have time or the priority to provide evidence for my statements. Also why would I prove myself to you, when you yourself haven’t given any evidence for your statements that I’m wrong and you have not provided any reasons for me to think you’re credible enough that your statements on red/NIR light therapies should be believed even without supporting evidence? I provided reasons for why I’m pretty credible when it comes to this subject. Some people will take that as enough of a reason to think my statements are most likely true and will find my statements valuable as a result. Others will not, but that’s fine by me. My comments are not for them.

Not really. Each of us has different values and amount of time available to spend here. Some people here have time to post way more than I do while many others have a lot less time than I do and don’t even have time to read the posts let alone write posts. We’re all entitled to prioritize our time as we wish.

Listen to your own language here to see who is a bully here. You’re being very rude. I repeat to you again that I am not obsessed with this subject. I researched it so deeply because I got paid to do so. I’m not obliged to prove anything to you, and with your attitute and attacks on my character (instead of sticking to discussions on red light therapy), I’m definitely not going to waste my time proving things to you. I’m more likely to provide evidence for someone else that is more polite, if they ask a very specific question, but even that I’m unlikely to do, because this whole discussion is getting tiring.

Regarding proof. You have been stating that I am wrong and that I need to provide proof, all the while you have not provided any studies in support of that. Therefore it seems to me that you consider yourself credible enough that you don’t need to support your statements with evidence, but you think I’m not so credible so I have to support mine. Can you see the irony here? Why should we believe what you say? What makes you so credible on this matter that makes you not need to supply evidence?

I don’t think I’ve been disrespectful towards Alex here. I’ve been direct and harsh but tried to comment on the actual science not his personality.

I have, and I appreciate that. But you’re not obliged to answer me and provide evidence whenever I ask something.

Yes but there are cases where demanding proof is the opposite of being respectful. If some individual has a high credibility in a certain area, asking him to provide evidence for most of the things he says on that area can be disrespectful, as in you’re questioning their credibility and demanding time from them. As an example, lets say you had a conversation with Matt Klaberlein on rapamycin and he would make a lot of statements about it, it would be disrespectful to ask him to provide references for everything he says. That would be an insult to his comptenency right? Instead you would assume he is right on most of what he says about rapamycin, although he could certainly be wrong on some things.

The same applies if you ask an individual about some area that he happens to have researched a ton and that individual also has a good track record of evaluating the evidence and reaching sound conclusions. In this way, Alex demanding evidence from me can come across as disrespect, given how much I’ve researched red/NIR light therapy. If in contrast someone with high credibility on researching red/NIR light therapies would quesiton something I said about it, I would be much more compelled to provide evidence and discuss it to see if one of us missed something. But the way Alex responds to me is like he is saying all the research I did is worthless and that’s not a respectful way to ask someone to provide evidence.

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Very interesting. Do you go to a clinic or do you have your own machine?

For either can you please tell us the cost?

I only paid partial attention to the red light / NIR eye safety discussion here and that’s because I researched it ad nauseam when I was actively making up my mind as to the safety of not using goggles, I concluded based on my research that red light is beneficial, NIR a bit of a mixed bag but certainly not dangerous in the context of how I planned on using my panel, and that was that. BUT I didn’t have my sources handy as I conducted this research a good three years ago and honestly can’t be bothered now to look again. I also don’t like to ask people to take me at my word especially since I don’t have any credentials and am a mere voracious researcher on PubMed and a highly competent one at that, but that’s strictly my opinion. For three years I’ve been using my panel on the regular without any eye protection and find zero difference in my vision. It’s an LED, not a coherent light source. And to each their own.

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It was my very first device. In 2017 I attempted DIY cool sculpting on a problem spot and ended up with some freeze burn damage that resulted in hyperpigmentation on that spot. So I got the device to help with that and no more. It worked though very gradually and in the end time was the best medicine — now the spot is gone. But the more I looked it up on pubmed the more I found applications that looked interesting. Thankfully (or unfortunately, as concerns my getting a value for my money) I have zero pigmentation issues. My skin is cold cream with no freckles or spots or any unevenness of tone so the traditional uses were moot to me. But I used it with very good success for lip enhancement. It plumps them right up. For the longest time I was nervous using it on my face as it meant not wearing goggles and I didn’t want to laser my eyeball off at a slip of the hand. So I didn’t use it nearly as often as I wanted to as I needed to screw my courage to take the plunge. But towards the end I figured it out. Basically I do it blindfolded in my goggles and use my hands and sense of touch to know what I’m doing. Not ideal but takes care of the fear so if you pay attention to where you feel it on the skin and have good hand eye coordination even when blindfolded, you can use it with reasonable precision. That or recruit a spouse to do your dirty work. Mine doesn’t want to have anything to do with operating my devices so I’m flying solo. I highly recommend it for lips specifically, for pores, and pigment issues. The new one I got is the picosecond version that’s supposed to be more powerful even with less heat. It’s in transit from China. I plan to use it every 1-2 weeks for collagen stimulation.

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That is the logical fallacy of a ā€œArgument from authorityā€

Matt Kaeberlein should be expected to be sufficiently competent within his domain as to provide the valid evidence.

The same applies to me.

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Cool, thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience! I am still researching possible application areas :slight_smile: Price is interesting. Hope, your device will be delivered without any delays soon.

I have my own machine - an OEM device I imported from China. The total cost, including customs (Incoterms DDP), was around $2,000. Considering that a single session costs about €500 in Germany, it’s already a positive return for me and my overall family benefit from it. :blush:

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Brilliant. I need to gear up like this, waiting for some shred of reason on tariffs in the US.

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You’re absolutely right on the technical points. But I think it misses the point. Knowledge is being aware the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad — type of thing.

Yes technically no one should be above backing up 100% of what he says. But if you troll an authority with incessant questions as to every little point, it is disrespectful and leaves it to be inferred that you’re not arguing in good faith. And if said authority is indeed such and values his time, he may not find it worthwhile to engage at all.

Obviously I mean ā€œyouā€ very hypothetically here.

It’s about having good manners, basically, and not antagonizing the other person for no reason. If someone is in dead earnest, and can’t find the source that’s being implied about a claim, then it is good manners on the person who made the claim to go fish it out. Once or twice being tight on time is understandable. But repeatedly excusing oneself from backing up assertions starts to look like a cop out. So it cuts both ways. And it’s a fine line.

Ok somehow the tariffs didn’t seem to apply! I don’t know how they’re doing it or if the Chinese are subsidizing us covertly. But it’s the same price I had been quoted before tariffs.

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Forget about ā€œan authorityā€. IF anyone is trolled with incessant questions then it can be argued that this is not respectful.

However, that is not what I have seen in this. I may be wrong, but @Olafurpall has not been responding with evidence. On the other hand @Alex has been quite rude.

Hence I would not necessarily want to come down on one side or another. However, @Olafurpall has argued a resort to authority for not responding which is a logical fallacy.

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Yes I agree. A pox on both houses here for various reasons. I generally like both commenters but really, manners go a long way.

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Yes, I have not been responding with evidence and the reason for that is the time it takes to do so. I have no time to be writing a review on red/NIR therapy for the eyes or backing up all I said about it. However, if there is something specific that I said above that you are somewhat skeptical of being true, and would like to see some evidence for, then feel free to ask. Maybe I’ll dig up a reference or few for you.

Yeah I’m not innocent here. Things got a little heated. It happens to me once in a while if I’m not careful enough to soften my responses. Thing is, nothing grinds my gears more than someone insting on me being wrong about something I have researched a ton, and researched a lot more than they have, while failing to provide good reasoning or evidence for why I might be wrong. That’s pretty disrespectful. Alex might as well have just called me a liar or said that I don’t know how to do my research, instead of just insinuating that.

That said. Of course I can miss some things, so if someone has good reasoning or evidence for something I said being wrong, feel free to share. I may have missed some important studies and there are more studies being published on red/NIR therapy all the time so who knows. But in general, if someone has researched something a lot more than you, don’t be too quick to claim they are wrong about that subject. Chances are they know a few things you missed.

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Something I have thought of before. Interesting to see Sinclair talk about this like the other commenter said.