Dr. Brad weighs in on reducing skin aging.
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arugula
#525
The before/after pic of the face is not very impressive. I think the before looks better than the after.
One can do better with tretinoin or tazarotene.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jocd.15945
Iām skeptical of anything coming from SkinCeuticals. These are the same people charging $200 or more for 30ml of a topical L-ascorbic acid serum of dubious efficacy that you can make at home for like $2.
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I didnāt see any reference to skinceuticalsā¦ did I miss it in the paper?
the authors are from this organization, and they donāt mention any commercial ties/COIs:
1Skin Laser & Surgery Specialists, A
Division of Schweiger Dermatology
Group, Hackensack, New Jersey, USA
2Icahn School of Medicine at Mt. Sinai,
New York City, New York, USA
Correspondence
David Goldberg, MD, JD, FAAD,
Schweiger Dermatology Group-Medical
Plaza, 20 Prospect Ave Suite 702,
Hackensack, NJ 07601, USA.
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Hesperidin, Hesperetin, Rutinose, and Rhamnose Act as Skin Anti-Aging Agents
Aging is a complex physiological process that can be accelerated by chemical (high blood glucose levels) or physical (solar exposure) factors. It is accompanied by the accumulation of altered molecules in the human body. The accumulation of oxidatively modified and glycated proteins is associated with inflammation and the progression of chronic diseases (aging). The use of antiglycating agents is one of the recent approaches in the preventive strategy of aging and natural compounds seem to be promising candidates. Our study focused on the anti-aging effect of the flavonoid hesperetin, its glycoside hesperidin and its carbohydrate moieties rutinose and rhamnose on young and physiologically aged normal human dermal fibroblasts (NHDFs). The anti-aging activity of the test compounds was evaluated by measuring matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) and inflammatory interleukins by ELISA. The modulation of elastase, hyaluronidase, and collagenase activity by the tested substances was evaluated spectrophotometrically by tube tests. Rutinose and rhamnose inhibited the activity of pure elastase, hyaluronidase, and collagenase. Hesperidin and hesperetin inhibited elastase and hyaluronidase activity. In skin aging models, MMP-1 and MMP-2 levels were reduced after application of all tested substances. Collagen I production was increased after the application of rhamnose and rutinose.
Full paper (Open access):
Past link / discussion regarding Hesperetin: Hesperetin promotes longevity and delays aging via activation of Cisd2
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I am always curious with these as to how much these molecules are linked to HDAC inhibition. I think Rutin is an HDACi, whether Rutinose (which is prepared from Rutin) is or isnāt I donāt know.
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arugula
#529
It was in your original link.
The study cream, which consisted of 0.2% pure retinol, 2.5% tripeptide concentrate, and 5.0% glaucine complex (Tripeptide-R Neck Repair, Skinceuticals),
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May I ask if there are any good ways to prevent rough pores
scta123
#531
Mesobotox shrinks pores and gives you smooth skin without affecting mimics.
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RapAdmin
split this topic
#532
4 posts were merged into an existing topic: åØēŗæč“ä¹°é·åøéē“ - åÆé čÆåŗåč”Ø
RapAdmin
#533
Also called āMicrobotoxā, or āmicro droplet botoxāā¦
@LaraPo Is this a type of mesotheapy that you might do yourself? I have no idea as to whether you can purchase the botox easily if you wanted to do it yourself. It seems its available from the usual Indian suspects, this ad suggests 13,000 rupees, or around $160 US for 100iu.
Realself.com suggests:
Micro Botox (also called MesoBotox) refers to the technique of injecting Botox superficially, into the skin rather than into muscle. This is primarily done to tighten pores, reducing oil and making the skin appear smoother, though it may also improve the appearance of redness and flushing from rosacea. However, many doctors on RealSelf recommend other treatments, such as lasers and microneedling, instead of Micro Botoxāor in addition to itāfor best results.
The dilution and the number of units is the same as for traditional Botox injections, but the Botox is dispersed over a larger area. āMicro Botox is usually injected in the T-zone area and through the entire face: in the forehead, cheeks, nose, and chin area,ā says Dr. Usha Rajagopal, a San Francisco plastic surgeon, in a RealSelf Q&A. Micro Botox doesnāt last as long as traditional Botox, with follow-up treatments needed within two to four months for continued effects.
Papers on the topic:
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LaraPo
#536
Yes, itās something that is easy to do at home. However, 100 iu is a big quantity enough for several people. Once opened, has to be used immediately. There are many meso cocktails, vitamins + Botox, mixed together, that are quite popular. And you donāt need to buy such big quantity.
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scta123
#537
Yes, 100 iu is probably enough for two completely frozen faces. For mesobotox you greatly dilute botox, so I believe 10 iu are enough for pores.
Botox once prepared needs to be used immediately or refrigerated for up to several weeks, but it will loose some potencyā¦
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RapAdmin
#538
Interestingā¦ it seems 50iu at $120US is the minimum size container sold (from a cursory search on Indiamart).
scta123
#539
Doctors usually prepare botox and use it for several patients in a rowā¦ it needs to be used in hours.
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RapAdmin
#540
But youāre saying you could refrigerate it and use it over a few weeksā¦ but I guess that doesnāt help much (since you arenāt going to redo the injections in a few weeks) - so perhaps people could share the purchase with a friend ā¦ It seems the quantities in these vials are too much for individual use, doing mesobotox at home. But at $120 or so per vial, vs. $500 to $600 for the treatment in a dermatologistās office, people may find its fine to just throw away what they donāt use.
Reading around a bit moreā¦ I see people also use Microbotox for the backs of hands:
Thatās right ā you can get botox in your hands. This famous wrinkle relaxer can restore a youthful plumpness to your hands in just 30 minutes, and the results last for months.
and
When treating patientsā hands with Botox, the amount of Botox required per hand is proportional to hand size, which is proportional to foot size. So you can tell how much they need over the phone, simply ask patients what size shoes they wear. Very roughly, for a male patient, a ā¢ size 8 shoe means each hand needs at least 80 units, ā¢ size 10 shoe means each hand needs at least 100 units, ā¢ size 12 shoe means each hand needs at least 120 units. So, it is true what they say about guys with big feetā¦ they need more Botox for their hands. Kevin C. Smith, MD, FRCPC Canada Dr. Barankin is a dermatologist based in Toronto, Canada. He is author-editor of five books in dermatology, and is widely published in the dermatology and humanities literature. He is also co-editor of Dermanities (dermanities.com), an online journal devoted to the humanities as they relate to dermatology.
Source: Breaking Bad News, Tips for Using Botox on Hands, and More
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scta123
#541
Yes, you could refrigerate, but it looses potency and becomes unpredictableā¦ you also need to repeat the pore treatment every 9-12 weeks, so refrigeration is not an option. Yes, find several friends and DIY might be an option.
edit: my husband said you would need 10-30 iu for pores depending on the treated area and you could potentially use the remaining for mesobotox brow lift (20-30 iu) if you are really daring DIYer (I think he was being cynical not that this is medical advice 
).
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RapAdmin
#542
Some research / clinical application discussion on this:
Open Access:
Discussion on this:
prs.0000000000001840.pdf (373.7 KB)
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Lowroad
#543
I order OneSkin via ShipItTo from Europe. Quite straightforward
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Lowroad
#544
Was intrigued by your comment about the effectiveness of Pycnogenol. Do you use it topical or oral? What made you decide to use it?
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